Ideas on 289 rebuild

68xstang · Oct 26, 2010

I plan to rebuild my stock 2v 289 at some point in time (=next year).

At the same time I intend to squeeze some more horses. I am missing some parts in the build plan, hence I would need some expert advise.

The bottom will be quite stock with some improved rod bolts and hypereuthetic pistons. I have a edelbrock 500 and a weiand stealth already in my "storage".
The exhaust side will have 351W manifolds with 2.5" ehxaust pipes, H-pipe and flowmasters. These parts I also already have.

What I still am struggling with, are the heads, the cam and the ignition parts.

I am as much as possible looking for used parts, to keep a low budget. However, when it comes to heads, I believe the only wise thing is to go for new ones.
The cam should allow for a smooth idle, because the car will be a daily driver.

What would you engine builders recommend to close the gaps that I have??
Do you think my plan is ok?

woodsnake · Oct 26, 2010

For the ignition, I'd say go with the tried and true Ford Duraspark. If you can wait until Feb of next year, I'll have a complete hardly used set up available. If you aren't going for huge gains, freshen up the stock heads. A .030 over piston and .010 over and under on the rods and mains. Something like this would be a big help.

COMP Cams K31-218-2 - COMP Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

I recommend the comp cams kit because they are complete, not out of any experience yet.

Az Pete · Oct 26, 2010

I would do a bit heavier cam because for a daily driver, the idle can be "not so smooth" and you have more power....and more fun..... Had them both ways and really prefer a bit of a rumble at idle.

65coupe408w · Oct 26, 2010

Az Pete said:
I would do a bit heavier cam because for a daily driver, the idle can be "not so smooth" and you have more power....and more fun..... Had them both ways and really prefer a bit of a rumble at idle.

+1 love the big cam sound and hp. I street drive my 65 about 90% of the time and the cam gives no issues but boy does the motor pull strong!

robbz28 · Oct 26, 2010

Your cam needs to match your heads no matter what you do. If using stock heads then that cam kit listed above would be a good cam. If you go a head with a larger intake runner (I suggest something around 180cc) then you can go more lift and duration on your cam (about 280 lift, 490 duration) That will maximize the flow. The top end of the engine is where all the horsepower is made. One other suggestion is why not just pick up a newer 302 that needs to be rebuilt, maybe one with GT40 heads. That way you won't risk messing up your original 289, and have a more solid platform for playing. Can you give us a budget that you are wanting to stay within?

2+2GT · Oct 26, 2010

The bottom will be quite stock with some improved rod bolts and hypereuthetic pistons.
That, or forged pistons, quite reasonable for the 289. Use the flat-tops.

I have a edelbrock 500
Too small for a cam upgrade, use a 600.

and a weiand stealth already in my "storage".
OK.

The exhaust side will have 351W manifolds with 2.5" ehxaust pipes, H-pipe and flowmasters. These parts I also already have.
The 351W manifolds are a bit of a downer, sine you'll need custom-fitting to attach an H pipe to it. 289HP manifolds with a 2.25" H pipe are available, and bolt right on. The 2.5" exhaust is more than you need, anyway.

What I still am struggling with, are the heads, the cam and the ignition parts.

I am as much as possible looking for used parts, to keep a low budget. However, when it comes to heads, I believe the only wise thing is to go for new ones.
If your heads are shot, then yeah, get new ones, it's not that much more than fixing the old ones. The main drawback, though, to the iron heads was the really poor exhaust ports. This can be fixed in a couple hours work, though, if the heads are OK you can save yourself a grand. I showed a guy near here how to do this, I did one port and he did the rest at home. Later, the engine turned 321 hp on the dyno.

The cam should allow for a smooth idle, because the car will be a daily driver.
I really like the C9OZ-C cam, Ford designed this as a hydraulic version of the C3OZ-C 289HP cam. Matched profile, .477" lift, 290° duration. Excellent power band, smooth idle. This was the cam the head guy above used.

rbohm · Oct 26, 2010

68xstang said:
I plan to rebuild my stock 2v 289 at some point in time (=next year).

At the same time I intend to squeeze some more horses. I am missing some parts in the build plan, hence I would need some expert advise.

The bottom will be quite stock with some improved rod bolts and hypereuthetic pistons. I have a edelbrock 500 and a weiand stealth already in my "storage".
The exhaust side will have 351W manifolds with 2.5" ehxaust pipes, H-pipe and flowmasters. These parts I also already have.

What I still am struggling with, are the heads, the cam and the ignition parts.

I am as much as possible looking for used parts, to keep a low budget. However, when it comes to heads, I believe the only wise thing is to go for new ones.
The cam should allow for a smooth idle, because the car will be a daily driver.

What would you engine builders recommend to close the gaps that I have??
Do you think my plan is ok?

here is the build i am working on for my 289;

world products windsor jr heads out of the box, for now
a comp cams retrofit roller cam with .480 lift and 260 degrees advertised duration
a duraspark distributor, and either a duraspark ignition box, or a chrysler orange ignition box.
1.6 roller rockers
tri-y headers
either an edelbrock performer or weiand stealth intake and a 600cfm edelbrock carb
stock replacement cast pistons. dont spend the money on hypereutectic or forged pistons unless you are going to push for 400+hp and you are going racing or running a supercharger.
and dont forget to upgrade all the fasteners, rod bolts, main bolts, head bolts, etc to arp bolts. they are inexpensive and well worth the money.

this combination should be good for about 325hp at the flywheel.

woodsnake said:
For the ignition, I'd say go with the tried and true Ford Duraspark. If you can wait until Feb of next year, I'll have a complete hardly used set up available. If you aren't going for huge gains, freshen up the stock heads. A .030 over piston and .010 over and under on the rods and mains. Something like this would be a big help.

COMP Cams K31-218-2 - COMP Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

I recommend the comp cams kit because they are complete, not out of any experience yet.

also a good build.

PoppyMod · Oct 26, 2010

|}"CW21

68xstang said:
I plan to rebuild my stock 2v 289 at some point in time (=next year).

At the same time I intend to squeeze some more horses. I am missing some parts in the build plan, hence I would need some expert advise.

The bottom will be quite stock with some improved rod bolts and hypereuthetic pistons. I have a edelbrock 500 and a weiand stealth already in my "storage".
The exhaust side will have 351W manifolds with 2.5" ehxaust pipes, H-pipe and flowmasters. These parts I also already have.

What I still am struggling with, are the heads, the cam and the ignition parts.

I am as much as possible looking for used parts, to keep a low budget. However, when it comes to heads, I believe the only wise thing is to go for new ones.
The cam should allow for a smooth idle, because the car will be a daily driver.

What would you engine builders recommend to close the gaps that I have??
Do you think my plan is ok?

Hi,

I read through most all of the responses and very much agree with one respondants point of matching the cam to the heads. However, you left out the very first decision to make and that's "how will you be using this car?" Will it be a spirited street warrior, a street/drag, or drag queen etc?
The reason is, if you choose spirited street, you want to build for torque and not so much, for HP. You will want heads/cam that make their most power lower down the food chain, not at 6500 Rs.
As an example, the following is of one of my previous builds that was dynoed on a chassis dyno. This means, the numbers were repesentitive of RWHP and RWTQ. Drive train losses have already been factored into the numbers.

It's in street warrior trim:
I started with a 46 year old 289 block:
Bored & stroked using a 331 stoker kit w/.040 borerf5pistons were Probe dual relief (an important feature for the secong iteration)
Heads were Windsor JR (iron lungs) 1.94/1.60 with blended bowls and pocket porting. (sold this past summer), CR 10.1
I used a matching CI hyd. roller (sold with heads), with Comp magnum roller rockers, hardened PRs, guides, custom spring pressures, etc.
Cam specs: LSA 114; gross lift (1.6 rockers) .546 Int & .544 exh.
Idle vac 17 hgs. @ 800 RPMs
Intake: Performer RPM with a 600 CFM custom tuned 1405 (manual choke) Eddy (still have this carb)
Headers: TRY-Ys into 2.5" with "X" with SpinTech muffs
Ignition is custom curved OEM dizzy w/Pertronix (gen 1) and Jacobs ignition box.
My dyno numbers were 337.4 RWHP at 5500 with 448.4 RWTQ 3200

I have since moved on to TFS TW 170 street heads and "hotter" cam and am making 392 RWHP @ 6100 RPMs.

The pont I want to convey, is don't get hung up in the "gee whiz" table talk with how big every thing is. As, in the end, you'll very disappointed with it's lack of streetability and perfromance.

Remember: TQ for the street, HP for the track.

As I blue-printed the assembly of my own junk, I ca/will answer any follow up questions.
Good luck in your quest!

68xstang · Oct 26, 2010

Thanx all for the reponses!!
I need to mention that the car will be used on the street, .i.e torque is what I am building for. And I don't like too much "unclean" idle, hence no monster cam.

When it comes to the heads, I can port and build my stock 289 heads. I also have a pair of early (DC0E) 351W that I could port and use. However, is it worth the effort, compared to getting a decent low cost pair of aluminium heads?? I mean, porting and upgrading the 289/351W with new valves, hardened seats, guides, sealings, rocker studs, etc. will be quite costly in the end, or?
But, if I would go for a pair of aftermarket heads, which should I choose?

I was thinking to stay at something 270-300 hp.

More comments are welcome!

2+2GT · Oct 26, 2010

Hmmm… The 351W heads are the basic design later used in the GT40 head. But if they need rebuilding, then you have to decide if you want to put hundreds of dollars into them, or just go with something like the Ford M-6049-X306.

Realmongo · Oct 26, 2010

You could also go with the original 1969 High-Perf Hydraulic Ford Cam.

68xstang · Oct 28, 2010

PoppyMod said:
Hi,
I read through most all of the responses and very much agree with one respondants point of matching the cam to the heads. However, you left out the very first decision to make and that's "how will you be using this car?" Will it be a spirited street warrior, a street/drag, or drag queen etc?
The reason is, if you choose spirited street, you want to build for torque and not so much, for HP. You will want heads/cam that make their most power lower down the food chain, not at 6500 Rs.

As I blue-printed the assembly of my own junk, I ca/will answer any follow up questions.
Good luck in your quest!

As mentioned before the car will be used 99% on the street. My wife will probably drive it almost as much as me.

I am not looking into building any monster hp engine, but a driveable good engine. Budget is around $3000, and I have so far used ~$400 for the parts I have.
I have been checking out the edelbrock e-streer heads, which I would get for a low cost.
Edelbrock 5023 - Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads - Overview - SummitRacing.com
They have a 60cc combustion chamber. Do I need special pistons to keep a good comp ratio?

Then I would also need a cam to go with those. Do I also need to upgrade to a new converter?

Thanx for the help!

PoppyMod · Oct 28, 2010

68xstang said:
As mentioned before the car will be used 99% on the street. My wife will probably drive it almost as much as me.

I am not looking into building any monster hp engine, but a driveable good engine. Budget is around $3000, and I have so far used ~$400 for the parts I have.
I have been checking out the edelbrock e-streer heads, which I would get for a low cost.
Edelbrock 5023 - Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads - Overview - SummitRacing.com
They have a 60cc combustion chamber. Do I need special pistons to keep a good comp ratio?

Then I would also need a cam to go with those. Do I also need to upgrade to a new converter?

Thanx for the help!

In looking over those heads, they will probably make a nice entry level street engine considering the 170 runner lengths, the 1.90/1.60 valves. You might want to shoot for a 9.5 to 10.1 CR. It depends on the cam. In choosing a cam, I would highly suggest a hydraulic roller. There is no break- drama and good for making great street power.
Someone here running those heads can offer personal experience.

I'm running twisted wedge heads (2.02/1.60) and a custom cam. The whole engine was designed around those two components. My CR is 10.6 and idles like a baby, but, goes like a banshee!

When I ran my C4, I had a 2500 stall unit with a 3.25 rear. I later added a 3.55 for better off-line zip.

The combination of a more lively engine and a lower rear will certainly get your wife's attention.

To get a sense, you might talk to a local performance builder, discuss your use for the engine. When you get an idea of what he recommends. Visit local car shows and talk to guys who have done similar builds.

My first build, consisted of a hyd. roller conversion kit and cam (CompCam (still have it), a set of Windsor Jr heads (1.94/1.60) with the chambers cleaned up and a little pocket bowl porting. Those heads together with a Performer RPM, TRY-Ys, 600 Eddy , made 258 RWHP. It doesn't sound like much but, when you factor what the factory sported, it's not too bad. Oh, yeah, my CR was 9.0.

Speaking of CR, there are a number things that go into determining how to reach a CR goal.
Head chamber CCs, piston surface relative to block deck, compressed gasket CC, piston surface CC, ring land CC (approx 2ccs), not to mention the bore and stroke. I think I capture it all.
...and this just determines the static CR, not the dynamic, which comes into play during engine operation. For a lot of these reasons, I like a custom cam grinder.

Anyway, enough from me!

Do a lot of listening, learning, and chat it up with guys who assemble.

Good Luck!

htwheelz67 · Oct 28, 2010

if you want torque then throw a stroker kit in your 289 block, like a 347 and a mild smooth idling cam and some aftermarket heads, you could easily add 80-100hp and a huge amount of TQ over the stock 289 and have a relatively mild stock sounding engine and on the outside it will look like your old stock 289, I would forget the cast iron manifolds in favor of headers even shorties as they will bottle up any good flowing head.

PoppyMod · Oct 28, 2010

htwheelz67 said:
if you want torque then throw a stroker kit in your 289 block, like a 347 and a mild smooth idling cam and some aftermarket heads, you could easily add 80-100hp and a huge amount of TQ over the stock 289 and have a relatively mild stock sounding engine and on the outside it will look like your old stock 289, I would forget the cast iron manifolds in favor of headers even shorties as they will bottle up any good flowing head.

No doubt, it would make the cut as you state, but, I get the feeling his plans are more in line with a "306", perhaps a "333" .

68xstang · Nov 2, 2010

Great posts from ya all!!

The bottom will stay stock for the moment. No stroking, although it would be nice for building more torque...

I will visit the local race engine builder over here and have a chat with him. I know he has some experience on sbf builds.

Thanx!!

2+2GT · Nov 2, 2010

Realmongo said:
You could also go with the original 1969 High-Perf Hydraulic Ford Cam.

True! The C9OZ-6250-C is an excellent cam, designed by Ford engine designers as a hydraulic cam with identical net profile to the C3OZ-6250-C 289 High Performance cam. A fellow near here port-matched (his first try) his horrible 67 iron heads, installed the C9OZ-C, Edelbrock Performer rpm and 600 cfm carb, and a recurved stock distributor, and turned 321 hp on the dyno. Pretty good power for a low-buck engine project.

68xstang · Nov 2, 2010

2+2GT said:
True! The C9OZ-6250-C is an excellent cam, designed by Ford engine designers as a hydraulic cam with identical net profile to the C3OZ-6250-C 289 High Performance cam. A fellow near here port-matched (his first try) his horrible 67 iron heads, installed the C9OZ-C, Edelbrock Performer rpm and 600 cfm carb, and a recurved stock distributor, and turned 321 hp on the dyno. Pretty good power for a low-buck engine project.

This was amazing figures! I never thought you could achieve that with such a small modification. I assume the 321 was engine hp and not rwhp??
Do you know the torque figures and rpm?

This means that I could maybe achieve close to 300 with the parts I have + a pair of e-street and a hp cam??

phutch11 · Nov 2, 2010

I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not considering more modern cam profiles. Cam design is a science and its come a long way in 50 years.

I would bet that you can have more power and torque thoroughout the powerband pretty easily.

If it were me, I'd spend some time on the phone with a rep from one of the major cam companies and are what they'd recommend.

Listening is free.

Good luck...

robbz28 · Nov 2, 2010

htwheelz67 said:
if you want torque then throw a stroker kit in your 289 block, like a 347 and a mild smooth idling cam and some aftermarket heads, you could easily add 80-100hp and a huge amount of TQ over the stock 289 and have a relatively mild stock sounding engine and on the outside it will look like your old stock 289, I would forget the cast iron manifolds in favor of headers even shorties as they will bottle up any good flowing head.

Just wanted to throw in there that its not the wisest move because the block does not have the extensions on the bottom of the cylinder to allow for the additional stroke a 302 has, therefore stroking it even more could possibly lead to problems in a 289 down the road. If stroking, always spend the extra 75 bucks and find a 302 block somewhere, just my 2 cents.

Ideas on 289 rebuild

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