I'll try again!!! 5.4 (mod, no 331 pushrod strokers)

65up2d8 · Apr 16, 2005

Surely someone on this post has seen a Classic Mustang with a 5.4 mod motor. If not, I want to be the first. I guess, by this post, however, I have just leaked my secret ingredient to the world!! hehe

Seriously, I am an avid stanger, although I must admit I am a relatively new member of this forum, who lost my membership in the recent crash and probably failed to intoduce myself correctly. I have owned my Mustang since I was 15 years old, and I am now 32. I have wanted to "restomod" my car since I bought it in 1987, and in 1989, way before it was "cool" and Mustangs Plus coined that term, I had a T-5 in my ride as well as fuel injection. Unfortunately, I have not progressed to the extent I had hoped since that time as life got in the way.

I am planning, at this point, my next reincarnation with this wonderful piece of Americana that we all afffectionately refer to as the Classic Mustang. And in that vein, in classic "restomod" style, I would like to convert to a 5.4 4V engine. With the 2007 Shelby Cobra GT 500 on the way, I feel certain the perfect donor engine will materialize after this 450 hp beast is on the roads for a while.

My question, among others, is what suspension setup do you think would possibly work??? A MII setup is out of the question as far as I am concerned, as the tech is too dated IMHO (no offense meant to anyone who is using this setup). It appears to me, however, that a Griggs or RRS strut setup MIGHT, and I repeat MIGHT, allow such an engine fitment along with the handling I am looking for. As I hope I have conveyed, however, these are all pipe dreams at this point, but we all know the Mustang mind constantly churns........ Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry this thread is so long.

D.Hearne · Apr 16, 2005

Just as with a Chevy engine swap, the question is WHY? You can get the same power and reliability without the hassle of virtually rebuilding the whole front half of the car with a pushrod small block. For the money, time and effort you'll spend, you'd be better off just buying and 05 GT. Plus you've made the comment that the Stang II suspension is "dated", hell the whole car you're talking about is "dated"

ozstang65 · Apr 16, 2005

65up2d8 said:
..A MII setup is out of the question as far as I am concerned, as the tech is too dated IMHO (no offense meant to anyone who is using this setup)..

I agree. Ok for a trailer Queen, but far from ideal for road racing.

65up2d8 said:
.. It appears to me, however, that a Griggs or RRS strut setup MIGHT, and I repeat MIGHT, allow such an engine fitment along with the handling I am looking for...

Here's the RRS webpage outlining the notch kit that can be used with their struts. They say it'll make it possible to fit the Mod motor into the '65/6 size frame.

Mustang & Fords ran a cover story a couple of years ago with a silver GT convertible with a Mod motor in it - very tidy! It's by no means a bolt-in job, but the results should be worth it.

brianj5600 · Apr 16, 2005

Strut suspension, though modern, are not designed for performance. Struts are cheaper and easier to build. Most people consider it a step back from the original sla mustang! Study some suspension books and build your own if you are worried about having the best. Look into stock car type suspension, tons of variations and someone already did the engineering. The new Chevy pushrod motors are way better than mod motors and would possibly fit w/o hacking the car.

D.Hearne · Apr 16, 2005

brianj5600 said:
Strut suspension, though modern, are not designed for performance. Struts are cheaper and easier to build. Most people consider it a step back from the original sla mustang! Study some suspension books and build your own if you are worried about having the best. Look into stock car type suspension, tons of variations and someone already did the engineering. The new Chevy pushrod motors are way better than mod motors and would possibly fit w/o hacking the car.

Have you noticed that the newer Chevy motors look a lot like Fords?

brianj5600 · Apr 16, 2005

D.Hearne said:
Have you noticed that the newer Chevy motors look a lot like Fords?

Nascar, yes. Street LS2, no. The first time I saw the SB2 I thought it was a Ford. 10 head bolts, spread ports, but why did Ford move the distributer to the rear? Oh, that is the new Chevy.

C0V3R · Apr 16, 2005

I have seen a eleanor replica in Australia with the RRS setup and a cobra 4.6 mod motor installed with room to spare. They used the RRS struts with the notch kit.

brianj5600 · Apr 16, 2005

How much taller is a 5.4? MMFF did one in a fox and it stuck out of the hood, so it must be taller than a 351w?

reenmachine · Apr 16, 2005

65up2d8 said:
A MII setup is out of the question as far as I am concerned, as the tech is too dated IMHO (no offense meant to anyone who is using this setup).

No offense taken, but I disagree. The only thing "Mustang II" about a modern MII setup is the geometry, which Ford happened to get right. Dual TIG welded tubular A-arms, coilovers, and beefy structure are what you get these days. I drive one in a '67 fastback nearly every day and it's excellent. Certainly not a trailer queen.

reenmachine · Apr 16, 2005

65up2d8 said:
I have wanted to "restomod" my car since I bought it in 1987, and in 1989, way before it was "cool" and Mustangs Plus coined that term

Oh, and Mustangs Plus didn't coin the term. It's been around forever in other circles.

redhotcomet · Apr 16, 2005

Kar Kraft sells engines for this very purpose. Go to www.karkraft.com/engines.htm
and check out their "Cyklone 5.4" for $7000

Helluva deal if you ask me.

one2gamble · Apr 16, 2005

brianj5600 said:
Strut suspension, though modern, are not designed for performance. Struts are cheaper and easier to build. Most people consider it a step back from the original sla mustang! Study some suspension books and build your own if you are worried about having the best. Look into stock car type suspension, tons of variations and someone already did the engineering. The new Chevy pushrod motors are way better than mod motors and would possibly fit w/o hacking the car.

wow, this thread is going to get interesting

1. I dont see BMW having much of a problem with struts, granted they are not the best set up but they can be made to perform very well.
2. I dont see many stock blocked Chevy pushrod motors cranking out over 600hp let alone 800hp. There is simply nothing better about the chevy pushrod motor except its physical size and N/A capability.

brianj5600 · Apr 16, 2005

one2gamble said:
wow, this thread is going to get interesting

1. I dont see BMW having much of a problem with struts, granted they are not the best set up but they can be made to perform very well.
2. I dont see many stock blocked Chevy pushrod motors cranking out over 600hp let alone 800hp. There is simply nothing better about the chevy pushrod motor except its physical size and N/A capability.

1. Show me a car in racing that uses strut suspension that does not require stock type set up. The reason you won't see one is it is not as good as sla.
2. Have you seen anything on the new LS7? 500 N/A HP. Only 50 less than a Ford GT 5.4. That means with about 8lbs of boost, you get close to 800 hp. If you are not impressed with the new line of GM engines you are either in denial or don't know anything about them. Oh, and N/A capability is directly tied to forced induction capability.
If you look in the new Hot Rod magazine there is a T/A that broke into the 7's with a new gen GM motor. My guess is that would take well over 800hp for a street looking true 10.5 car. Ya, it has a blower, but I'm guessing the 600 or 800 hp mod motors had forced induction as well.

65up2d8 · Apr 16, 2005

I appreciate everyone's input on this subject. From what I have been able to ascertain, the strut setup is better than an MII setup from a handling standpoint (once again, no offense to anyone running an MII setup).

Insofar as why I would be interested in doing this, I simply think that the new mod motors are smooth and quite powerful given the right combination of parts. I know I could build a stroker Windsor that would be every bit, if not more, powerful, but that wouldn't be different. I would like something a little more unique. Obviously others agree or SN65's thread wouldn't have so much activity. I can't wait to see that car finished!

Further, although I like the 2005 Mustang and would love to have one, there's no way in Hades I would get rid of my 65 to buy one!! As I stated, I have owned this car since I was 15 years old. It's absolutely irreplaceable as far as I am concerned.

Finally, with respect to putting a Chevy engine in a Classic Mustang, I would rather put a Briggs and Stratton 5 hp engine in the car than do that!! If I wanted a Chevy motor, I would have started with a Camaro. Why not just put a friggin Volvo engine in it? I hear the new ones are pretty powerful lol.

D.Hearne · Apr 16, 2005

brianj5600 said:
Nascar, yes. Street LS2, no. The first time I saw the SB2 I thought it was a Ford. 10 head bolts, spread ports, but why did Ford move the distributer to the rear? Oh, that is the new Chevy.

I wasn't talking about the SB2 I was referring to the LS1. Looks a lot like a Ford motor. Evenly spaced ports, Y-block, and many other features.

Route666 · Apr 16, 2005

It would be an EXCELLENT swap IF it didn't weigh so much. The mod motor weighs as much (or is that more than) as a big block motor, and has either 4.6 or 5.4L capacity. Ewww. That seems like such a waste to me. Sure the DOHC makes up for it somewhat, but how about a 6 litre DOHC? Man a 6L (5.4 crank) SHM aluminium block would make this engine so much sweeter.

D.Hearne · Apr 16, 2005

Route666 said:
It would be an EXCELLENT swap IF it didn't weigh so much. The mod motor weighs as much (or is that more than) as a big block motor, and has either 4.6 or 5.4L capacity. Ewww. That seems like such a waste to me. Sure the DOHC makes up for it somewhat, but how about a 6 litre DOHC? Man a 6L (5.4 crank) SHM aluminium block would make this engine so much sweeter.

the mods aren't that heavy, just big as ****. There's a guy on the RPS forums that weighed a DOHC 4.6 and it weighed in at 450 lbs

redhotcomet · Apr 16, 2005

The new chevy motors resemble Fords more than chevys

Mod motor weigh between 440 and 600 lbs, depending upon head/block material.

The new corvette small block makes 500 horses, but it also displaces 427 cubic inches, or 7.0 litres. IMHO, the Chevy pushrod motors are nearing the end of their usefulness, whereas the new Ford motors are still in the early stages of developement.

65up2d8 · Apr 16, 2005

I couldn't agree more. Chevy is making a lot of power, but it is with a lot more cubes. The mod motors are far more advanced and will run many miles if well taken care of.

one2gamble · Apr 17, 2005

Only 50 less than a Ford GT 5.4. That means with about 8lbs of boost, you get close to 800 hp

First off, its more like 100+hp short if you go by the GT's actual hp numbers. I have seen dyno results from 540rwp all the way up to 570rwhp.

Secondly, its questionable if the new LS will be able to take even 8lbs of boost. Not to mention I hope they strengthened the block or its simply going to crack in half with 8lbs.

If you look in the new Hot Rod magazine there is a T/A that broke into the 7's with a new gen GM motor. My guess is that would take well over 800hp for a street looking true 10.5 car. Ya, it has a blower, but I'm guessing the 600 or 800 hp mod motors had forced induction as well.

and there are mod motor cars in the 6's

I'll try again!!! 5.4 (mod, no 331 pushrod strokers)

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