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Engine I'm gonna fix this thing if it kills me!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vyper202
  • Start date Start date Jul 21, 2019
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jozsefsz

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#21
  • Jul 31, 2019
  • #21
Your fuel pump could be failing. Are you hearing it try to prime as it won't start? Can you put a fuel pressure gauge on it when it's failing to start or at least a thumb to the schrader valve to see if you have fuel pressure? Not going to tell you to sell it or not to sell it, but it's a 25 year old car and it's going to give you some fits now and again that'll take some time and methodical troubleshooting. If that's not for you, you might be better off making it someone else's problem and picking up a used Toyota.
 
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Vyper202

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#22
  • Jul 31, 2019
  • #22
It has fuel pressure at the valve... it’s pressurized when I push it in with screwdriver... it’s temp related... anytime air temp here is over 90 degrees it shuts off.... when engine temp cools down and air temp is cool at night it runs without issues...
 

Potomus Pete

I'm still waiting for the fully nude shots
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#23
  • Jul 31, 2019
  • #23
At this point after a distributor I dont blame you
 
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Vyper202

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#24
  • Jul 31, 2019
  • #24
Ok just got it home.... after sitting for hour it fired up.... stumbled a little at first, surging at idle... then it settled down and ran fine all way home. I did check the rail and it has fuel pressure so it has to be electronic... i did stomp it in 3rd a few times on way home and a couple time when it got up around 3500, it nose dived for a second, just like you turned key off, but it came right back and kept pulling.... has to be something electronic breaking down sporadically.... Hoping it will do it at home so I can troubleshoot.... at least I have a meter there
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#25
  • Jul 31, 2019
  • #25
Don't give up. You'll find it , you just have to be methodical.
 
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Vyper202

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#26
  • Jul 31, 2019
  • #26
Ive had a lot of cars over the years, and 7-8 mustangs from 1965 to 2005, but this one is giving me the most headache... lol.... I hate a intermittent issue... I mean dam, just go ahead and break so I can fix it...
 
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jozsefsz

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#27
  • Aug 1, 2019
  • #27
The O'Reilly distributor you mention, did it happen to be a re-branded rebuilt? It wouldn't be the first one I've heard has been bad out of the box. Since the PIP doesn't act up unless hot and tests just fine, the rebuilder changes a few bushings, cleans it up, slaps a new cap & rotor on it along with their sticker, and puts it on sale. Just waiting to piss-off the next guy who winds up with it. You're best off replacing the PIP yourself with a decent quality new part, it's not hard to do for someone mechanically inclined.

The next time it acts up, check the fuel pressure at that exact moment to make sure it's within range (about 32psi at idle, 39psi with the vacuum line disconnected from the regulator). The nose-dive at wide-open-throttle often indicates a fueling problem - your foot and the throttle body give it more air, but the injectors don't keep up with the fuel it then needs.

Also check if you have spark. If you don't have spark, it's very possible the PIP again and I'd toss the distributor back at O'Reilly for replacement #2. You could also throw a bag of ice on the distributor to cool it off faster and see if it starts sooner.

On a 25 year old car it could be lots of electrical gremlins or corroded wires that heat up and lose connection but the most common in our cars remain the TFI and PIP.
 
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Vyper202

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#28
  • Aug 1, 2019
  • #28
I'm not sure how I'm going to check fuel pressure at the exact moment... as I said its my sons car (17), and we both work... I'm with you on the distributor, Ive gotten many new "bad" parts lately.... I'm going to have them give me another one to try, and it was a new one, not rebuilt, at least that's what it was sold as.... You guys have to remember this always happens many miles from my home, so when it does it the primary mission is to get it home, not test fuel pressure, spark or anything like that when its on the side of the road. That's why I say I want it to do it at house so I can properly test it....
 

jozsefsz

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#29
  • Aug 2, 2019
  • #29
Yeah, cars rarely do us the favor of breaking down right on the driveway. A fuel pressure gauge can be rented from AutoZone or O'Reilly's and it's about as hard as checking the tire pressure - at the schrader valve on the fuel rail. And checking for spark is as easy as carrying an old spark plug with you. Both of those items are small & portable and I'd carry them with me at all times with a car that's been acting stupid. If you can determine which is missing - fuel or spark - it'll be easier to determine where to focus. Plus while it's cooling off to restart you'll have some time on your hands to diagnose as long as you have a few tools with you. Not suggesting you rebuild the engine at the side of the road, just pick up a little data to keep it from happening again.

One thing for sure is it's not the MAF - the car will run with that even completely disconnected, just in open-loop. Try disconnecting it next time if you want, but I wouldn't keep replacing it (that gets expensive). If it turns out to be fuel pressure, change the fuel filter and consider changing the pump. If it turns out to be spark, replace the distributor again and consider a replacement ignition coil (especially if the car has an MSD or the original coil).

While it's an annoying and sporadic, it's not hard to diagnose, and should be easy enough to repair once you've diagnosed it. If it's truly heat-related, which it sounds like it is, you can probably get it to act up just letting it idle on the driveway for an hour or two if you prefer to work at home. When my PIP was bad I could easily get it to stall out and refuse to restart just idling for 15-20 minutes.
 
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Vyper202

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#30
  • Aug 2, 2019
  • #30
Ok so today we got replacement under warranty TFI coil MAF and distributor... replaced all them today and it fires right up and seems to pull and run a little stronger.... drove about 20 miles close to house with no issues.... going to keep driving it close to house for a few days and see what happens... keeping my meter and noid light in the trunk so I can test if it does it again...
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#31
  • Aug 2, 2019
  • #31
There, I feel much better now.
 
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Vyper202

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#32
  • Aug 8, 2019
  • #32
Its been a week of steady driving now with no issues.... Cant say for sure which component it was as we replaced all of them with warranty parts, at this point I don't care as long as it keeps running!
On another note, I have the timing set to 13 degrees instead of the factory 10, and my seat of the pants meter can tell no difference in how it performs at 13 instead of 10.... May drop it back to 10 just to keep it OEM.
 
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jozsefsz

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#33
  • Aug 9, 2019
  • #33
Good to hear! It's almost always one of the 3 - TFI, PIP, less likely coil, now you know for hopefully 20 years from now when it happens again. The 10 degrees will smooth out your idle a little too, and lessen any chance of pinging, so I likewise don't bother with the 1/2-hp that's worth.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#34
  • Aug 9, 2019
  • #34
And you were going to sell that pos.
or burn it
or drive it off a cliff, I forget which one.
Anyway, did you post pics of the pos, er, fine piece of automotive craftsmanship?
 
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Vyper202

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#35
  • Aug 12, 2019
  • #35
karthief, I hadn't did pics yet as its 3 different colors now as the PO started a paint job but didn't get far, that the next project, back to original color. And Im still not saying that if it screws up again it wont be for sale, but its my sons ride and it has to be reliable as possible. And I have told all my kids that I wont sell a vehicle out from under them, but will sell it if that's what they want.
 
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Vyper202

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#36
  • Aug 19, 2019
  • #36
And again last night... sputtered and died... sat for hour and started and made it home... I swear it only does it on the hottest days... it was 98 yesterday.... cooled down in evening and fired right up..... this thing is going cause me lose my mind
 

jozsefsz

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#37
  • Aug 19, 2019
  • #37
Have you checked the fuel pressure yet when the car refuses to start? That'd be the next place I'd look.
 
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Vyper202

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#38
  • Aug 19, 2019
  • #38
I have depressed the schrader valve when it doesn't start and it will spray pressurized fuel....
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#39
  • Aug 19, 2019
  • #39
Vyper202 said:
I have depressed the schrader valve when it doesn't start and it will spray pressurized fuel....
Click to expand...
Ok, so it has fuel pressure but how much?
a flat tire can still have some air pressure, just not enough to hold up the car.
 
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Vyper202

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#40
  • Aug 19, 2019
  • #40
I don’t disagree with that my point was when I pushed the valve it has in my opinion the same pressure as when it’s running... I’m getting a fuel pressure gauge this weekend and get hard data and let it run to see if it cuts off either in driveway or driving it close to home... with my meter to check electrical
 
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