Info for a 331/347 stroker build

stprorolla49 · Dec 30, 2006

donkey_punch said:
if your not going to storke the bottom end, and you current one does leak or smoke. then why even spend the time and money to tear into it.

just spend the funds on a H/C/I with supporting mods like maf, TB , injectors etc..
and call it a day.

just MHO

This is true, ill have to do a compression check on it. See, heres the thing, when i work with my dad on cars, it takes him FOREVER to do things. Don't get me wrong, hes built 2 of the most badass muscle/race cars ive eer seen. Not only are they beautiful, theres about 1000hp im my garage between the 2 cars. I know that my buddy dave and i could to the h/c/i in a weekend but id like to do it with my dad because its cool project. And its my dd so i dont wanna have it undriveable for a long time. Maybe ill just find a low mile 5.0 shortblock at the JY, build the motor, and just swap whole motors...How long have your h/c/i's taken to install?

donkey_punch · Dec 30, 2006

i paid someone to do since i couldn't dedicate the time to do it. i really did want to do it, but the parts alone sat for almost 2 years and then i said **** it and just paid for the install. i knew it would take forever for me to do it for myself, lack of space, tools, and time. i would of saved money, but you can't buy time.

just like my turbo kit. i got my kit Dec 19 of 2004, and i said i was going to install it. i was also hoping that shortly after i would have a house with an oversize garage. i'm still living in an apartment and renting a small garage. so my kit is still collecting dust. i'm about to pay someone to install it, but then the funds i've saved to either buy a complete fuel system or a stand alone would all be gone due to turbo install. i'm at that point where i can buy my time to do it.

you should be able to do it in a weekend, but i would do it while you have time off during the week. cause if you need a certain length pushrod and it's SAT afternoon your in water buddy.

good luck on whatever you decide
later
Joe

stprorolla49 · Dec 30, 2006

donkey_punch said:
i paid someone to do since i couldn't dedicate the time to do it. i really did want to do it, but the parts alone sat for almost 2 years and then i said **** it and just paid for the install. i knew it would take forever for me to do it for myself, lack of space, tools, and time. i would of saved money, but you can't buy time.

just like my turbo kit. i got my kit Dec 19 of 2004, and i said i was going to install it. i was also hoping that shortly after i would have a house with an oversize garage. i'm still living in an apartment and renting a small garage. so my kit is still collecting dust. i'm about to pay someone to install it, but then the funds i've saved to either buy a complete fuel system or a stand alone would all be gone due to turbo install. i'm at that point where i can buy my time to do it.

you should be able to do it in a weekend, but i would do it while you have time off during the week. cause if you need a certain length pushrod and it's SAT afternoon your in water buddy.

good luck on whatever you decide
later
Joe

Yea, well hopefully i can save enough to do it over the summer...or do it during my winter break next year. I refuse to pay someone else to do the work for me because i have the tools and the skills to do it, and the $ I'd pay for someone else to install it, i could pay for a dyno tune, and a few days at the track. Where in NJ are you? I'm in Glen Ridge...the only things im doing in the next few month to the car are some underdrives, and a track-loc rebuild and some 3.73's. By march when i come home from break from school, i will run 13's, period.

If you guys have more info for me relating to the questions posed, please let me kno!

final5-0 · Dec 30, 2006

Paul has some good things to say in his post

Notice how they pulled more from a 302 than the typical h/c/i combos you see.

I may be speaking out of turn as I don't know how aggressive the cam is and all
but
Playing around with the pcm values might help some drivability issues

Still ... my gut tells me that Fox Stang is a bit more radical than what I have tried to describe in the above examples.

OEM block based combos like Paul's, mine, or other AFR/Edel/FTI combos seem to have surfaced here but they are not unlike different after market combos like the TFS kit you have seen so many use lately.

Bottom line is they all produce roughly the same range of power
None of them are so radical they can't be driven everyday

but

None of them are so tame you can ........

Run low octane gas
Operate them with the same cost as a stocker or milder combo
Bypass a tune and know you have best power/drivability
Idle smoothly ....
I'll elaborate here as I feel this point could be misunderstood
1) My Stang has a very consistent & stable idle
2) Its not smooth & draws lots of attention which IMHO is not always good

I guess I'm trying to say I could use my Stang just as it is and it would be fine for a dd. It really does behave like a little stocker as far as drivability issues go. No surging, bucking, stalling at lights, over rich smelly fumes, or any of those kinds of issues.

It also can really suck up that more expensive 93 grade gas when I wanna feel it work for me

Then there are the peeps at drive in windows, red lights, parking lots, etc, wanting to ask questions about the car. The rocker noise and cam lope is mostly the focus of their curiosity. It can get old and bothersome really fast

I just don't choose to use it as a dd ... if you see what I mean here

Paul is correct about the extra cubes could allow you to go less aggressive
but
I got a gut feeling you might fall a bit short of 1rwhp for every inch

How about I put my feelings for my car and combo mods like this

Love my car
Love how it turned out ... even better than expected
Love cruising around town in it with my favorite girl

however

IMHO ... its just a bit over the top for a daily driver

Grady

stprorolla49 · Dec 30, 2006

final5-0 said:
Paul has some good things to say in his post

Notice how they pulled more from a 302 than the typical h/c/i combos you see.

I may be speaking out of turn as I don't know how aggressive the cam is and all
but
Playing around with the pcm values might help some drivability issues

Still ... my gut tells me that Fox Stang is a bit more radical than what I have tried to describe in the above examples.

OEM block based combos like Paul's, mine, or other AFR/Edel/FTI combos seem to have surfaced here but they are not unlike different after market combos like the TFS kit you have seen so many use lately.

Bottom line is they all produce roughly the same range of power
None of them are so radical they can't be driven everyday

but

None of them are so tame you can ........

Run low octane gas
Operate them with the same cost as a stocker or milder combo
Bypass a tune and know you have best power/drivability
Idle smoothly ....
I'll elaborate here as I feel this point could be misunderstood
1) My Stang has a very consistent & stable idle
2) Its not smooth & draws lots of attention which IMHO is not always good

I guess I'm trying to say I could use my Stang just as it is and it would be fine for a dd. It really does behave like a little stocker as far as drivability issues go. No surging, bucking, stalling at lights, over rich smelly fumes, or any of those kinds of issues.

It also can really suck up that more expensive 93 grade gas when I wanna feel it work for me

Then there are the peeps at drive in windows, red lights, parking lots, etc, wanting to ask questions about the car. The rocker noise and cam lope is mostly the focus of their curiosity. It can get old and bothersome really fast

I just don't choose to use it as a dd ... if you see what I mean here

Paul is correct about the extra cubes could allow you to go less aggressive
but
I got a gut feeling you might fall a bit short of 1rwhp for every inch

How about I put my feelings for my car and combo mods like this

Love my car
Love how it turned out ... even better than expected
Love cruising around town in it with my favorite girl

however

IMHO ... its just a bit over the top for a daily driver

Grady

I do see exactly what your saying, and i agree. At this stage in my life, i still live at home, and will (during breaks) for the next 4 years, and possibly more until i establish myself out of college. We have the garage filled with my dads 2 "toys", a trailor next to the garage, and my car, my moms pilot, and my dads durango in the driveway. My middle brother is getting his first car this coming summer, meaning theres going to be 4 cars in the driveway when im home. I have asked my parents about getting a wrangler or something as a DD, but they said theres no room, and we dont wanna insure more cars. Therefore, the stang will be my dd for the next few years.

At this point, i think the best idea is to keep the car 302/306 because if i up the cubes, i want to get the most out of it, making it less and less tame, and less and less street friendly. Im not worried about cam lope, and loud exhaust, and other people looking at me. Not to make any comments or fun about your age, but i feel (as my dad is a perfect example) the older you get, the more and more you want the car you drive every day to be quiet, smooth(ish), reliable, good on gas (HAHAHA for the durango), etc.

As an 18 year old, ive got a long time to think about that, but in the mean time i wanna take what i have, which i am very lucky to have, and turn it into something im proud of. Over the last year, it has gone through a big transformation and im very happy with the way it looks (execpt for the new paint on the bumper already chipping ). Now i wanna make this thing sound more beastly than it is, and give my dads 350 chevelle a run for its money I guess all this reading has somewhat made up my mind, so i guess at this point, im looking for COMPLETE combos that you guys have put together...im talking h/c/i, tb, maf, inj, fueling, ignition, etc. When i get home from puerto rico and before i go back to school, im gonna do a compression check.

95Mustang302 · Dec 30, 2006

hey mike I know you want to go 331/347, but have you thought about going bigger. If I weren't going to go vortech I'd be all over a 408 stroker. There is a builder where you can get a 408 shortblock for 2200 bux... IDK if thats something your interested in. If its something that you might want to shoot for let me know and i'll try to dig up the link.

95Mustang302 · Dec 30, 2006

oh, and remeber, used parts can be your best friend. I did the entire trickflow package for under 1600 by buying used parts

stprorolla49 · Dec 31, 2006

95Mustang302 said:
oh, and remeber, used parts can be your best friend. I did the entire trickflow package for under 1600 by buying used parts

yea i plan on mostly used parts...my dad ALWAYS saves that way and so have i in the past...like my wheels...haha the 4 on the road, and the one i steer!

BlackVert · Dec 31, 2006

stprorolla49 said:
Do you have any more pluses to a 306 based motor? And a really good combo? It will be a lot more cost friendly, and in the end, probably a better choice. Thanks!

i was flipping through a engine performance book i have last night, and one of the combos was a carbed 302 with afr 185 heads and a comp xe262 cam. it put down 405 hp on an engine dyno.

seems to me you can what you are looking for out of a 302

final5-0 · Dec 31, 2006

How well all the various parts and tune work together ...........
can make or break how a combo is gonna work out for a Street Stang

Sure, 400rwhp can be found but its not gonna be all that great of a Street Car.

Could it be driven on the street ........ Absolutely ..........
but
its gonna be radical

Based upon my findings .........
I believe somewhere around 350rwhp is just about the limit ...........
for a combo that does not produce drivability issues.

I want to stress all my input here in this thread has been focused around
good low to mid range torque
good power under the curve
no drivability issues

I want to make this next part very plain and clear

Higher peak hp/tq dyno values can be desirable for many reasons
but
When it comes to STREET COMBOS
and
Even more so if talking about Daily Drivers
High peak dyno values are not always ... all that important

The more of a priority you place on them for a Street Car
The more difficulty you'll have avoiding the things talked about above

As in most things ... Compromise is critical for a successful out come here.

I do understand one needs to have knowledge to make sound decisions
so
they will understand about ......... that compromise.

Over the years I've had all different kinds of NA SBF combos from ......
Milk Toast - Mild
to
Snarly/Nasty - Radical which attracted every Cop in town

I've just been trying to show what I found out with my 95 GT
I realize some members don't have experience like that to draw from
Hopefully you can see it is possible
to take a 302-306 NA after market parts based combo to a level of .......
1 rwhp per cubic inch and possibly a bit more
while still maintaining pretty good street manners

Summing up cause I know ya'll are tired of my rambling

A few of my ... Must Have ... goals for my Street Stang were:
1) Good low/mid range tq
2) Power to 6K
3) Good Street Manners
4) Have control of tune for MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY in drivability & power

You ain't gonna accomplish #4 with dizzy twisting & an afpr

Unfortunately, #4 is gonna set you back a good bit of money
I just haven't been able to find a work around for that
Sorry ... that's just the way it is!

Grady

Black Stampede · Dec 31, 2006

Based on what I have read in this thread I agree with you on the 302/306 based combo. It seems a solid combo making around 300rwhp will make you happy paired with some sticky tires. Mid 12s should be right on track. Good luck on your parts selection.

stprorolla49 · Dec 31, 2006

Black Stampede said:
Based on what I have read in this thread I agree with you on the 302/306 based combo. It seems a solid combo making around 300rwhp will make you happy paired with some sticky tires. Mid 12s should be right on track. Good luck on your parts selection.

Yea, i dont think that ill have a problem picking up another second and a half with another 100hp+gears. Ill keep researching as i save my $

Grady- Your posts are amazing because it seems like our beating around the bush with all your random smiley faces and indentations, but your info is always great. I'd say that your 4 goals are pretty much my 4 goals, but for my #4, ill probably get a dyno tune. Thanks man!

Keep the info rolling!

BlackVert · Dec 31, 2006

sorry, i misspoke. it was 450 hp, not 405 hp. lol

stprorolla49 · Jan 1, 2007

yea, if i can make 300hp and run mid-low 12's on dr's then ill be happy... i think i was getting ahead of myself, and diving into too large of a project time and money wise at this point in time....it would literally take me 3 years to save up enough money to build the motor, and i just dont think its worth it...ill put a nice hci on the stock shortblock, then when something breaks ill have a few hundred bucks in reserve and just rebuild the shortblock to a 306 with some forged pistons and rods...then maybe throw a blower on it in years to come

can some of you guys give me some combos that are tried and proven besides the all too well known afr/eddy/fti combo its funny cause thats probably what im going to to anyway lol

95Mustang302 · Jan 2, 2007

i know exactly how you feel, i thought that a hci car would be enough for me, however I was wrong as I'm now saving for a tko and a blower!

stprorolla49 · Jan 2, 2007

95Mustang302 said:
i know exactly how you feel, i thought that a hci car would be enough for me, however I was wrong as I'm now saving for a tko and a blower!

yea, its an never ending disease...i just cant dump that much cash at one time...and i also cant wait that much time to get some more power...

for example, my buddy scott (raceoholic330) has a stock bottom end, afr 165s, anderson b21 cam, and a systemax intake....after about a year, he threw an s-trim on there, and at 14 lbs of boost and 514hp on a safe tune with his PMS, its still running strong...and last season he made an 11.57 pass on 275 nitto drags

final5-0 · Jan 2, 2007

stprorolla49 said:
yea, its an never ending disease...i just cant dump that much cash at one time...and i also cant wait that much time to get some more power...

for example, my buddy scott (raceoholic330) has a stock bottom end, afr 165s, anderson b21 cam, and a systemax intake....after about a year, he threw an s-trim on there, and at 14 lbs of boost and 514hp on a safe tune with his PMS, its still running strong...and last season he made an 11.57 pass on 275 nitto drags

Can you provide more details on this combo

Dyno results would be great

OH Yeah ... My interest is focused upon BEFORE the blower was added

Grady

stprorolla49 · Jan 3, 2007

final5-0 said:
Can you provide more details on this combo

Dyno results would be great

OH Yeah ... My interest is focused upon BEFORE the blower was added

Grady

Sure, this is from his cardomain page:

Engine/Induction:
Polished Vortech V-2 SQ S-trim supercharger(10-rib 3.33"/8" pullies ~14 lbs of boost), AFR 165 61cc aluminum stud mount heads, AFM b-31 cam (.544 max lift), Polished Holley Systemax intake manifold, 70mm accufab throttle body, AFM powerpipe, Greddy Type RS blow off valve, 80mm pro-m mass air meter, Crane double roller timing chain, Scorpion 1.6 ratio aluminum roller rockers, trick flow 6.300" chrome moly pushrods, Powerbond SFI harmonic balancer, AFM chrome valve covers, ARP bolts everywhere. Snow Performance Stage II methanol injection kit, hi-torque mini starter

Electronics/Fuel:
'04 Anderson Ford Motorsport Programmable Management System with 3 bar map sensor and InterACQ, Crane Hi-6 ignition and Fireball coil, 160amp 3G alternator, FMS 42lb injectors, Walbro 255lph in-tank pump, T-Rex inline pump, Kirban adjustable fuel pressure regualtor

Cooling:
Afco 31x19 aluminum radiator, high flow water pump, Ramchargers dual electric fan, billet overflow tank

Exhaust:
Bassani 1 3/4 ceramic short tube headers, Bassani off-road x-pipe, flowmaster 3 chamber catback (3 in. polished tips)

Info for a 331/347 stroker build

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