Installed H/C/I and now not running

mustangramair · Apr 11, 2005

Hey guys, i installed TFS TW heads with TFS stage 1 cam and explorer intake. One of the guys with us didn't mark the distributor when he pulled it. We got the car all back together and it didn't run well, i thought it was because the timing was so far off. WEll i had it towed to a ford dealer and they said they have it timed perfectly and nothing is different from when they got it. The car runs very roughly and doesn't stay running for long. It backfires through the intake. The ford dealer says that they don't want to work on it because they only work on stock stuff. They said the #6 cylinder is low on compression and they hear a knock coming from the engine. They said they might suspect a bent valve. How would i bend a valve? Could it be that the timing was so far off that a piston came up at the wrong time when a valve was coming down? What do you guys think? I used proform roller rockers and 6.750 length pushrods. Thanks, Nick

dstanggt50 · Apr 11, 2005

I would get a compression guage and see how low it is, readjust your valvetrain, check for codes, and see if you can get a timing gun to see where your timing is. They probably set the timing right, but I would feel more comfortable if I saw it myself, and see if they set it to stock 10, or if its a little advance. If your compression is low on that cylinder, readjust that cylinders rockers, test compression again. If the valve really is bent, you could pull the head and send it to a machine shop. Don't know if timing will do that to a valve. If you pull codes, that can help you determine if there is anything else causing it to run poorly. Another thing you can do is chk for vacuum leaks.

mustangramair · Apr 11, 2005

Thanks alot for the quick reply, what really sucks is i am up at school so i have to wait till the weekend to do anything. wow, i am really down right now... I just dropped a bunch of cash on this car and don't want to spend more. I will go through and check all of what you said when i get home.

5spd GT · Apr 11, 2005

Trust me I know the feeling about being "down"...you spend time and money on a project like that and something goes wrong...

Now...I don't fully trust dealerships to well and I bet the timing is correct. You will want it atleast at 10* but better at 14-16* with higher octane (91 or 93). The popping thru the intake makes me think the timing is off. I doubt you bent a valve but you never know. I'm assuming you set up the valvetrain correctly?

I think it is more of a timing issue...personally...

Good Luck man

93 teal terror · Apr 11, 2005

Don't forget to check for vacuum leaks and check your fuel pressure. On 19#ers about 20-25psi of fuel pressure can also cause what you are describing.

5spd GT · Apr 11, 2005

93 teal terror said:
Don't forget to check for vacuum leaks and check your fuel pressure. On 19#ers about 20-25psi of fuel pressure can also cause what you are describing.

Very good point...he does have a BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator. No telling where it is adjusted at out of the box With his 24lb injectors I would set it around 39psi or maybe bump it up to the lower 40's (42psi) as I have seen some 24lber guys do to make a good a/f ratio...but with your particular combo 39psi should be what you need.

Double check all connections

mustangramair · Apr 11, 2005

5spd GT said:
Trust me I know the feeling about being "down"...you spend time and money on a project like that and something goes wrong...

Now...I don't fully trust dealerships to well and I bet the timing is correct. You will want it atleast at 10* but better at 14-16* with higher octane (91 or 93). The popping thru the intake makes me think the timing is off. I doubt you bent a valve but you never know. I'm assuming you set up the valvetrain correctly?

I think it is more of a timing issue...personally...

Good Luck man

You just made me feel alittle better, i heard it is very difficult to get zero lash on stud mount rockers. We followed trick flow's procedure tighten one then turn the engine a quater turn. It doesn't hurt to check again though.

mustangramair · Apr 11, 2005

5spd GT said:
Very good point...he does have a BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator. No telling where it is adjusted at out of the box With his 24lb injectors I would set it around 39psi or maybe bump it up to the lower 40's (42psi) as I have seen some 24lber guys do to make a good a/f ratio...but with your particular combo 39psi should be what you need.

Double check all connections

I have a fuel pressure guage and it is set at 40 psi.

5spd GT · Apr 11, 2005

I installed stud mounted rockers (was the first time for me) and have did it a few times and everytime I did them correctly because the car runs just fine on my daily driver. I used the intstructions from flowtech induction's website:

“1. Remove the valve covers, and pick a cylinder you are going to set the pre-load on. Only do one cylinder at a time.
2. Rotate the engine in its normal direction of rotation (clockwise) and watch the exhaust valve on that particular cylinder. When the exhaust valve begins to open, stop and adjust that cylinder's intake rocker arm.
3. To adjust, back off the intake rocker arm adjusting nut and remove any tension from the push rod. Wait a minute or two for that hydraulic lifter to return to a neutral position. The spring inside the lifter will move the push rod seat up against the retaining lock, if you give it time to do so.
4. Twist the intake push rod with your fingers while tightening down the rocker arm. When you feel a slight resistance to the turning of the push rod, you are at "Zero Lash". Turn the adjusting nut down one half to three-quarters of a turn from that point for street applications. Use 1/8 to 1/4 turn for race applications. Lock the adjuster into position. The intake is now adjusted properly.
5. Continue to turn the engine, watching that same intake valve/rocker you just set. It will go to full open and then begin to close. When it is almost closed, stop and adjust the exhaust rocker arm on that particular cylinder. Loosen the exhaust rocker arm and follow the same procedure described before in steps 3 and 4 to adjust this rocker arm.
6. Both valves on this cylinder are now adjusted, and you can move on to your next cylinder and follow the same procedure again.
There may be some initial valvetrain noise when the engine is first fired up but once oil pressure has stabilized and the engine heats up, it should quiet right down to a normal level.
Remember that some racier camshafts will have a mechanical sound to them and will not be a silent as factory units.”

40psi with the vaccum line off and disconnected.

On my car the difference between the vaccum line off and on is about 5psi and when you plug the line with your finger when setting the fuel pressure it is a 1psi difference as opposed to leaving it to open air. Just a "notice" by me...So I bet your fuel pressure isn't the problem.

I would get a timing light and verify the timing. Make some marks with White-Out on your balancer at 10* BTDC (I believe) and that is where you want the pointer at when at idle. Make sure you take out the spout connector to ensure that the timing doesn't advance with revs.

Good Luck

Oh I have had trouble with leaks here and there and adjusting this and that and when your in a crunch (since this is my only car) it will stress you out...

mustangramair · Apr 11, 2005

5spd Gt, thank you for the nice write up. I know we had some trouble getting the dots on the timing chain to line up but i thought we got them to. Would it be possible my timing is off because of the timing chain?

5spd GT · Apr 11, 2005

mustangramair said:
5spd Gt, thank you for the nice write up. I know we had some trouble getting the dots on the timing chain to line up but i thought we got them to. Would it be possible my timing is off because of the timing chain?

I'm sure you got it installed right. As long as the #1 piston (front passenger side piston) at the top of its travel and the crankshaft keyway was facing up alls you had to do was slide the crank and cam gears on the right keyway on the timing chain gears. You get them to line up perfectly by rotating the engine. When you install the chain though you should see which keyway slides on to get it "even".

If you didn't do it correctly that could happen though but I would check the simple things first...like the timing and make sure Ford knows that there is a difference between 8* and 16*. My car wouldn't idle at 10* initially so we turned the distributor clockwise a bit and it idled fine and then we set it at 16* and that was that

mustangramair · Apr 11, 2005

Thanks alot! I love this site, you guys are alot of help I have alot to do when i get home from school this weekend.

jrichker · Apr 11, 2005

If you cross the plug wires, it will backfire out the intake. Check the firing order.
Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

mustangramair · Apr 11, 2005

jrichker said:
If you cross the plug wires, it will backfire out the intake. Check the firing order.
Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

When you say check the firing order, you mean check the wires on the distributor and on the spark plugs... correct? Sorry if that was a dumb question i am just making sure.

5spd GT · Apr 11, 2005

mustangramair said:
When you say check the firing order, you mean check the wires on the distributor and on the spark plugs... correct? Sorry if that was a dumb question i am just making sure.

Yeah that is what he means...just do a visual check.

My car (5.0L HO) has the wires go 1,2,3,4 in order down the passenger side and 5,6,7,8 on the driver side (front to back).

Verify by looking at your distributor...

Getting a Chilton's or Haynes manual would be a good investment.

mustangramair · Apr 11, 2005

5spd GT said:
Yeah that is what he means...just do a visual check.

My car (5.0L HO) has the wires go 1,2,3,4 in order down the passenger side and 5,6,7,8 on the driver side (front to back).

Verify by looking at your distributor...

Getting a Chilton's or Haynes manual would be a good investment.

Thanks man, yeah i have a crappy Haynes manual. I checked that atleast 10 times and took the wires on and off about 4. I am 99% sure that i have that correct but i will check again none the less. Thanks alot guys i appreciate it

95GTAODE · Apr 12, 2005

IMHO, after you double check all of the external items such as firing order, rocker adjustment, timeing, Fuel preassure, etc. Check your balancer by drawing a straight line through the rubber and outer rings and start the car. Shut it down after a few min. and see if that line is still straight. It's almost impossible to accurately set the timing if the balancer is slipping.

If all of that checks out, I would invest in a gasket set and start tearing it down. Verify that the chain is lined up dot to dot, there are no bent valves, and pay special attention to the intake and make sure there are no vaccum leaks when putting it back together.

If all of that doesn't cure the problem, I'm out of idea's!

Good Luck!

mustangramair · Apr 12, 2005

95GTAODE said:
IMHO, after you double check all of the external items such as firing order, rocker adjustment, timeing, Fuel preassure, etc. Check your balancer by drawing a straight line through the rubber and outer rings and start the car. Shut it down after a few min. and see if that line is still straight. It's almost impossible to accurately set the timing if the balancer is slipping.

If all of that checks out, I would invest in a gasket set and start tearing it down. Verify that the chain is lined up dot to dot, there are no bent valves, and pay special attention to the intake and make sure there are no vaccum leaks when putting it back together.

If all of that doesn't cure the problem, I'm out of idea's!

Good Luck!

Thanks alot, i emailed trick flow and asked them. They said the proform rockers will not promote proper valve train geometry so i need to get TFS rockers. So i guess this is one of my problems.

Installed H/C/I and now not running

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