intake manifold install

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stang66convt

New Member

Apr 13, 2006

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Nov 15, 2006

#1

• Nov 15, 2006

• #1

edelbrock manifold on 289....put new felpro gaskets on torque to specs.
leaking oil out of front and back of manifold....
i know those cork gaskets in front and back shifted during install....
instead of the cork gaskets...can a permatix be used install by itself without the cork gaskets

 

67 GTA

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Feb 7, 2003

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Frankln, Kentucky

Nov 15, 2006

#2

• Nov 15, 2006

• #2

I would not use just the gasket sealer if that is what you mean. You will have the same problem down the road. Permatex is not designed to work that way. It is only supposed to help seal the gaskets. The only right way to do it is to reinstall the manifold and gaskets. It helps if you put a little dab of sealer under each end of the cork gaskets, or use gasket shellac to hold them in place.

 

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C0V3R

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Feb 14, 2003

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Australia

Nov 15, 2006

#3

• Nov 15, 2006

• #3

I always use permatex instead of the cork now. I get 100% seals every time with the right bead of permatex versus a high chance of leaks with the cork.

 

jtfairlane

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Mar 5, 2006

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Nov 15, 2006

#4

• Nov 15, 2006

• #4

67 GTA said:

I would not use just the gasket sealer if that is what you mean. You will have the same problem down the road. Permatex is not designed to work that way. It is only supposed to help seal the gaskets. The only right way to do it is to reinstall the manifold and gaskets. It helps if you put a little dab of sealer under each end of the cork gaskets, or use gasket shellac to hold them in place.

Click to expand...

I disagree entirely. The cork "china-wall" gaskets are absolutely useless, and will always end up leaking. Since I have switched to using Permatex Ultra-Black (or The Right Stuff brand sealant, either one), I have done half a dozen intake installs and none have them have leaked a single drop of oil even years later. A common mistake people make when using silicone sealer instead of the cork gaskets is not using a) thick enough of a bead, and b) forgetting to run the silicone onto the corners of the intake gaskets themselves and dabbing a thick bead there.

Hell, don't even take it from me. I'm taking the following straight from the instructions included with my Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap manifold.

Do not use cork or rubber end seals. Use RTV silicone sealer instead. Apply a 1/4" high bead across each block end seal surface, overlapping the intake gasket at the four corners. This method will eliminate end seal slippage and deterioration.

 

Max Power

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Jul 31, 2003

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St Paul

Nov 15, 2006

#5

• Nov 15, 2006

• #5

67 GTA said:

I would not use just the gasket sealer if that is what you mean. You will have the same problem down the road. Permatex is not designed to work that way. It is only supposed to help seal the gaskets. The only right way to do it is to reinstall the manifold and gaskets. It helps if you put a little dab of sealer under each end of the cork gaskets, or use gasket shellac to hold them in place.

Click to expand...

Actually the directions for many intakes tell you to just use sealer instead of the cork.

 

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palerider94

Member

Feb 21, 2006

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Nov 15, 2006

#6

• Nov 15, 2006

• #6

JT is absolutely correct - just did mine this year PO used cork leaked like crazy - used Right Stuff on fron and back - aok. read the instructs for edelbrock! DONT USE CORK

 

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19stang66

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Apr 16, 2003

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Nov 16, 2006

#7

• Nov 16, 2006

• #7

I used blue rtv sealant on my manifold this spring because it was leaking oil out the back. If you get the right thickness and height, it'll work perfect. Throw away those cork gaskets.

 

302 coupe

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Mar 2, 2000

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Macon, Ga.

Nov 16, 2006

#8

• Nov 16, 2006

• #8

I guess the engine designers at ford were all a bunch of idiots because every windsor engine that ever left the factory had cork end seals. Use the Felpro 1250 intake set, the cork end seals have adhesive on them to prevent slipping. If you guys insist on using rubber goo to hold an engine together, so be it. Its not the right way to do it or ford would have designed it that way. I've done it both ways many times over, the last couple of swaps have been with the 1250 and 1262 gaskets sets and the install has been perfect.

 

Max Power

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Jul 31, 2003

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St Paul

Nov 16, 2006

#9

• Nov 16, 2006

• #9

302 coupe said:

I guess the engine designers at ford were all a bunch of idiots because every windsor engine that ever left the factory had cork end seals. Use the Felpro 1250 intake set, the cork end seals have adhesive on them to prevent slipping. If you guys insist on using rubber goo to hold an engine together, so be it. Its not the right way to do it or ford would have designed it that way. I've done it both ways many times over, the last couple of swaps have been with the 1250 and 1262 gaskets sets and the install has been perfect.

Click to expand...

I still use the cork cuz I'm old and change cames hard, but let's be honest here, this engine was designed in the late 50s when sealer technology was in the stone age. They had starter buttons on the floor back then, fer cryin out loud....

 

302 coupe

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Mar 2, 2000

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Macon, Ga.

Nov 16, 2006

#10

• Nov 16, 2006

• #10

I'm 26 y/o and have done probably close to 50 intake swaps. I'm not resistant to change, but when I find a better way to do something, I do it. Maybe you should back off on your assumptions.

 

Max Power

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Jul 31, 2003

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St Paul

Nov 16, 2006

#11

• Nov 16, 2006

• #11

What assumptions would those be?

 

302 coupe

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Mar 2, 2000

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#12

• Nov 16, 2006

• #12

I have no idea, I think I read your post wrong, lol.

 

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The Dan

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Jul 16, 2003

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Orange County, CA

Nov 16, 2006

#13

• Nov 16, 2006

• #13

I have done 3 swaps myslef, but have see countless on Horsepower TV, Muslecar, Two Guys Garage, etc., and guess what they ALL used on the front and rear of the manifold....yup RTV. I'm not saying everything I see on these shows is the end all be all on how to do something, but with so many suggesting the same meathod, I would think there has to be a good reason why.

The cork was a deliberate design flaw because dealers needed the business for their service departments.

 

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tylerrocks

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Oct 13, 2005

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Big Spring, TX

Nov 16, 2006

#14

• Nov 16, 2006

• #14

I recently changed intake gaskets 6 times trying to fix an oil leak. I tried RTV, I dont think I used enough because I still had a leak. Still though it didn't feel right. I finally sealed it up with corkers, I had to take the distributor out so I could make SURE the gasket didn't suck in. But I dont have an oil leak now and I am confident it will hold, you just gotta make sure your getting a good bite on it.

 

SoCalCruising

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Nov 16, 2006

#15

• Nov 16, 2006

• #15

Maybe this will help. The factory controls everything: block deck height, intake manifold, heads, machining, etc. and can specify one method that will work and work well in a high production process. Once you change the formula (e.g., block or head machining, intake design, etc.), then the factory method may no longer be appropriate. Silicone or The Right Stuff is much more forgiving with respect to dimensional changes from machining, etc.

If you use Silicone or The Right Stuff, mock up the install and see how much of a gap you have at the end rails (no gasket). The right bead height can then be easily determined. Personally, I don't like a big gap, but try to get under 0.100" which I handle with The Right Stuff. That's just me ....

 

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Sicarius428

Active Member

Jan 6, 2004

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Nov 16, 2006

#16

• Nov 16, 2006

• #16

To prevent shifting during the install go to your local hardware store and get 4 or so studs and use those to help guide your intake manifold down. It is really personal preference but I prefer to use a fat bead of ultra black at the front and back. I feel that this seals better than the cork. Also be sure that the surface is really clean. Anything that will take any grease off the surface. Another thing that can hurt is if it is too cold out the silicon will not cure or adhere correctly. Also go over your final torque settings 3-4 times to make sure that all the pressure is evenly distributed. You will notice as the gasket compresses the two bolts to either side of the one you are tightening up will not be doing much to hold it down. Give that a try and good luck.
Kevin

 

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mustangdave

My rearend needs a stud and two nuts.

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Nov 16, 2006

#17

• Nov 16, 2006

• #17

Actually, everybody is right; both methods work fine if done a particular way. If using only sealant, mock it up to see how much will be needed due to machining of the surfaces. Use sealant that is good against ALL fluids, (gas, oil, and coolant). Let the sealant tack up, torque down evenly, (the stud trick is great!), and don't touch it for 24 hours. Pretty much the same for corks: you can still use sealant but if you are using it to hold the cork to the block, allow it tack up pretty good. I would also use the Fel Pro with adhesive though...much better gasket. Studs are a great idea no matter which method you choose to lower the intake straight down.

 

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stang66convt

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Apr 13, 2006

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Nov 16, 2006

#18

• Nov 16, 2006

• #18

manifold seal

thanks to all for the resonse...i think the stud trick and seeing how much gap i have after mock up..and using the permatex is thr right way to go thanks all...will let you know if she still leaks

 

jtfairlane

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Mar 5, 2006

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Nov 16, 2006

#19

• Nov 16, 2006

• #19

302 coupe said:

Its not the right way to do it or ford would have designed it that way.

Click to expand...

I assume by "would have designed it that way" you mean "wouldn't have designed it that way".

So, are you making the claim that Ford is infallible in its designs, and that Ford never made manufacturing or design errors?

If that's the case, then why does Ford send out dozens of TSB's a year (Technical Service Bulletins) indicating to their dealerships how to fix problems with new vehicles?

If that's the case, then how do you explain the gas tank being used as the trunk floor in early mustang's and being responsible for countless deaths in rear-end collisions?

If that's the case, then how do you explain more than 90% of the seat belt retractors failing on Fox Body Mustangs, leaving you with a seat belt you wouldn't even trust to protect a blow up doll?

If that's the case, then why does Ford make recalls at all?


Oh, wait, I forgot, Ford designed it that way so it must be the right way.

 

302 coupe

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Mar 2, 2000

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Macon, Ga.

Nov 16, 2006

#20

• Nov 16, 2006

• #20

well geez guy, if you want to use silicone that bad, do it. All I'm saying is that there are no problems with using the cork gaskets when properly installed. I don't recall there ever being a TSB or recall for faulty cork end seals on the millions of windsor and other similar engines that use the same gasket design. If you can't master the installation of a simple self adhesive cork gasket, its not my fault. Maybe the next time you blow a head gasket, you'll just silicone it too, lol. Just kidding dude, lighten up.