Intake Manifold Leak Revenge

Makdaddymac · Jun 30, 2008

Hey everyone,
For those of you that don't know i have been doing a bolt on combo with gt40's and explorer intake. I installed and pulled my intake 3 times in desperate attempt to fix a leak in the rear, i was going for my fourth install and decided to check the manifold very closely... well there seems to bee two dimples in my problem area and just by using a straight edge seems to be visible light(not a flat surface) when compared to the other corners and old manifold? don't know if this is the culprit but im desperate, i almost ordered a china upper lower kit, but i realized fixing what i have is probably cheaper.
This is all in attempt to keep the heads on.which btw seem good and always have. i figure manifolds are more likely to warp and mess up then heads, and the heads were just brought from the shop.(according to the salesman) which is my fault for trusting him if i end having to take them off for machine work?

anyways i was wondering if anyone knows how much a intake manifold cost to have decked/resurfaced/fixed? and if the heads have to be with it? i don't want to get ripped since this is going to be my first experience with a machine shop? there is a nice lower on ebay right now, but im hesitant after buying this one!
sure would be nice if this fixes it, if the heads have to come off well, i quit

allballsmustang · Jun 30, 2008

Makdaddymac said:
Hey everyone,
For those of you that don't know i have been doing a bolt on combo with gt40's and explorer intake. I installed and pulled my intake 3 times in desperate attempt to fix a leak in the rear, i was going for my fourth install and decided to check the manifold very closely... well there seems to bee two dimples in my problem area and just by using a straight edge seems to be visible light(not a flat surface) when compared to the other corners and old manifold? don't know if this is the culprit but im desperate, i almost ordered a china upper lower kit, but i realized fixing what i have is probably cheaper.
This is all in attempt to keep the heads on.which btw seem good and always have. i figure manifolds are more likely to warp and mess up then heads, and the heads were just brought from the shop.(according to the salesman) which is my fault for trusting him if i end having to take them off for machine work?

anyways i was wondering if anyone knows how much a intake manifold cost to have decked/resurfaced/fixed? and if the heads have to be with it? i don't want to get ripped since this is going to be my first experience with a machine shop? there is a nice lower on ebay right now, but im hesitant after buying this one!
sure would be nice if this fixes it, if the heads have to come off well, i quit

they can deck it but its your going to loose metal that you have to make up for... if it's only a tiny bit you may be ok but i mean if they have to take of like 30 or 40 thous then you may be running into a prob... i would bring it to the machine shop and ask them how much they would have to take off to make it true...

jim

Makdaddymac · Jun 30, 2008

ok i found a place that will look at it, i'll see what they say, why would i run into problems? would it be too much of a shortening, i guess i will wait to see what the guy at the machine shop says? this will rule out a bad manifold vs. heads right?

allballsmustang · Jun 30, 2008

pardon the pic, im not very good at paint... anyway, your problem lies here: the heads are at an angle so that the lower manifold fits lightly between them... the angle that they sit at limits how far down the manifold can sit, so if you shave off the bottom of the intake where it bolts to the block your going to have a gap... where i drew then arrows is where the gap would be... so what all this comes down to is if they only have to take off a small amount then the gasket should make up for it but if they have to take off too much then you will be having the same problem as you are now... does that help at all?

jim

allballsmustang · Jun 30, 2008

also, i highly doubt its the heads if you dont have head gasket problems...

Makdaddymac · Jul 1, 2008

uh im doing a head and intake swap......

allballsmustang · Jul 1, 2008

yea, but i mean now that you have installed the new heads there is nothing leaking from the head gasket correct? if the heads were warped you could potentially have a problem with the head gasket in addition to your intake leak...you hadnt mentioned any probs with the heads so i assume there probably isnt any issue on the head side, prob just the intake...

Makdaddymac · Jul 1, 2008

well ladies and gents the manifold was brought to a machine shop.

and drum roll please........

it appears its grand OK......
the guy told me to ditch the rear and front seals for RTV, and tighten from the center out? he also said its uncommon for ford heads to mess up on the intake side? the books torquing sequence doesnt go from the center out but rather from the out to in? what to do what to do?

skunk21 · Jul 1, 2008

Makdaddymac said:
well ladies and gents the manifold was brought to a machine shop.

and drum roll please........

it appears its grand OK......
the guy told me to ditch the rear and front seals for RTV, and tighten from the center out? he also said its uncommon for ford heads to mess up on the intake side? the books torquing sequence doesnt go from the center out but rather from the out to in? what to do what to do?

sounds like you heard this before.. this how I would do it. I think you pretty much got the same answers, just like allballsmustang and others stated, the intake side of the heads would warp w/o the heads being total crap. If the intake checked out okay and you can't get it to seal you have to be doing something wrong or have crappy gaskets. when you use rtv on the coolant passages on the head don't make a bead around the port..the intake won't squash down enough and it might leak coolant out..I would put some on my finger and spread a nice even film around the port you are trying to aid the gasket in sealing and filling any pits or imperfections around the ports. The yalso sell a tube of gasket glue the gets tacky you get use it on the head also in a few spots to help hold the gasket ono the head.

The most important part is you need to use some type of giude pins like the before mentioned egr spacer studs or bolts with heads cut-off, i got the feeling you are messing up the seal some how. use some permatex right stuff or if you want copper rtv(not my first choice) and ditch the end seals, run atleast a 1/4 bead across the block and part way up the gasket. I would laso drop a small dot sized bead at eack croner wher the head meets the block before laying the gasket down on the head.

you could snug up the bolts from the center out, but I have never heard of the factory torque spec causing a leaking problem. I know you have been told how to do this before but it doesn't hurt to keep going over it. also make sure all surfaces are clean..and good luck you should be able to do this in your sleep by know .

Makdaddymac · Jul 1, 2008

hey green thanks for all your help,u too allballs
im gonna go one more itme with no seals and im gonna use light coats of silicone around the cooloant passages. and a 1/4 inch beack in place of the seals, im going to stick with black rtv it def. good enough for the job....... the silicone isnt the make or break.....

allballsmustang · Jul 1, 2008

are you useing those blue permatex seals in the center? also, i think when i bought my intake gasket set i got guide pins with it, they were blue and they screw and you can use those to hold the gasket straight while your lowering it onto the block... similar to the ones you get when you get a oil pan gasket set... or others have said just make a set...this will ensure it goes on 100% straight...torque sequence is definately important also so it goes down evenly... good luck

jim

skunk21 · Jul 1, 2008

Makdaddymac said:
hey green thanks for all your help,u too allballs
im gonna go one more itme with no seals and im gonna use light coats of silicone around the cooloant passages. and a 1/4 inch beack in place of the seals, im going to stick with black rtv it def. good enough for the job....... the silicone isnt the make or break.....

silicone in some cases is the most important item. the right stuff rtv was arecomendation from this site to me along time ago and I'm a believer in it for the right applications, it is thicker and doesn't smear as easy. It will also grip the intake so yes pulling it off later will be a pain. I think it seals very well and by comparison is very different from regular black rtv, that being said the regular black rtv is good for the coolant ports because it will compress further than the right stuff and you don't really need the intake gasket to stick to the heads more than needed. just my opinion and observations, not gospel. Hope everything goes well for you this time around.

Makdaddymac · Jul 1, 2008

allballs,
yes i talking about the front and rear seals(rubber peices)...

green,
its called the right stuff? what exactly is it called? and i will use it in palce of the fron/reaer seals

Maryland Stang · Jul 1, 2008

I used The Right Stuff too and it worked great. I have zero leaks anywear. I did use black RTV around the coolant ports.

I followed the recommended tightening sequence. I did go back over the bolts until they all stayed at 25 ft lbs or whatever it's supposed to be. I mention this because when I checked the torque after the initial tightening several of the bolts needed to be torqued again. I went over all of the bolts about 10 times until they all stayed at 25 ft lbs. I then checked them again the next day and they were all good. I did do the initial tightening in 2 steps.

Makdaddymac · Jul 2, 2008

ok its called the right stuff? and i want to use it in place of the fron and rear seals...

1st make sure its all clean
2nd-put a 1/4 inch bead across the front and rear on the block,with what? rtv or the right stuff?
3rd-then put a thing coat of rtv on the coolant ports of the head then put the gaskets on then set the manifold down using guide studs*which i have done all times guys.
4- finger/hand tight the bolts then wait 20mins to set then torque numerous times till everything is at 25lbs like i did last time, let it dry for 24hours, then the next day check the torque one last time, and add water and see if its all good?

skunk21 · Jul 2, 2008

Makdaddymac said:
ok its called the right stuff? and i want to use it in place of the fron and rear seals...

1st make sure its all clean
2nd-put a 1/4 inch bead across the front and rear on the block,with what? rtv or the right stuff?
3rd-then put a thing coat of rtv on the coolant ports of the head then put the gaskets on then set the manifold down using guide studs*which i have done all times guys.
4- finger/hand tight the bolts then wait 20mins to set then torque numerous times till everything is at 25lbs like i did last time, let it dry for 24hours, then the next day check the torque one last time, and add water and see if its all good?

this is the stuff right here..

1. make sure all the sealin surfaces are clean

2. put a thin coat of regular black rtv around the coolant ports of the head/intake and put a dab of right stuff at each corner where the heads meet the block.

3. install the guide pins and lay the gasket onto the heads

4. run atleast a 1/4" bead of rights stuff rtv across the front and rear of the block, let it get a skin but don't let dry.

5. carefully guide the intake down and start your bolts tighten a few down and remove the guide pins. follow torque specs and go over them a few times.

6. let it sit overnight so the rtv can cure.

7. bolt up the upper intake and the rest of the stuff then fire it up .

3.

Intake Manifold Leak Revenge

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