Is it possible to overcool a 4.6
- Thread starter MustangLife
- Start date
twogts4us
15 Year Member
"Cool as hell" ? Oxymoron! 
An electric water pump is not recommended for a daily driver, if this is your intention. It would still get to 160 or 180 or whatever temp your thermostat is. Question is, why do you feel you need this extra cooling ability? Does it run hot now?
An electric water pump is not recommended for a daily driver, if this is your intention. It would still get to 160 or 180 or whatever temp your thermostat is. Question is, why do you feel you need this extra cooling ability? Does it run hot now?
smokin'Red35th
Member
why waste the money on a new water pump and radiator? just get a lower thermostat. like 160* or something.
A 160 or 180 thermostat did nothing for my car. I have a 03 gt with 13k miles. The temp gauge sits in the middle most of the time. Reason asking, I have a friend with a 96 cobra with a d1-sc and hes got the electric water pump and fluidyne radiator and his car sits in the far left all the time. Its a daily driver and hes had the meziere on it for 2-3 years now with no problems.
Josh
Josh
Monkie
Active Member
twogts4us
15 Year Member
And this would make you happy because..? Ooh look, my temp gauge (which is probably broken if it permanently) 'sits in the far left'. There's no way your gonna get your engine to run at like a constant 100 degrees, so don't bother trying. I guess what you want is that 'just started, cool rush' it has when you first take it out after sitting and cooling for an extended period. Wouldn't we all...MustangLife said:
twogts4us
15 Year Member
Sorry MustangLife, didn't mean to sound so bitchy. Cool is always good to a point, but, to be honest, when you start talking about the "open and closed loop cycle" you're talking Greek to me. I've heard the term, and I engineer computer networks for a living, but I have no idea how that plays into the Mustang's EEC. Hey, at least I ain't afraid to admit it - your knowledge sounds like it is out of my league. 
4.6_02_Black_GT
Founding Member
TwoGTs,
In my "limited" understanding that the only reason Ford designed our mod motors to run toasty warm in the 170-180 range is to better help manage engine emissions, I dont recall exactly why or what is effected but theres some reason they chose to elevate the normal operating range. I would assume if you dont have sniffer tests in your area, have at it, assuming you have a chip and dyno and A/F meter to test your results.
In my "limited" understanding that the only reason Ford designed our mod motors to run toasty warm in the 170-180 range is to better help manage engine emissions, I dont recall exactly why or what is effected but theres some reason they chose to elevate the normal operating range. I would assume if you dont have sniffer tests in your area, have at it, assuming you have a chip and dyno and A/F meter to test your results.
i have a 180* t-stat and the difference is noticable. especially since the fan is programmed to come on earlier.
engines are designed to run at a certain temp. metal expands when heated and shrinks when cooled. modern engines have fairly tight tolerances. it's not a good idea to run a daily driver that cold. 180* minimum.
engines are designed to run at a certain temp. metal expands when heated and shrinks when cooled. modern engines have fairly tight tolerances. it's not a good idea to run a daily driver that cold. 180* minimum.
Venom_Nitrous
Founding Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't you lose power with an engine that is too cool. I know cooler is better for the air charge coming in. But, if the engine (block, heads, coolant) are very cool, they will absorb more of the energy given off by the exploding fuel. If the engine is warmer It won't absorb as much of the engery given off by the fuel exploding in the cylinder. The best way to make power is to insulate the air tract bringing air into the engine and have a super hot block. By super hot I mean like 212 F would be good because that way the coolant will not boil if it has anti freeve in it and it is not too close to the boiling point.
Yes it is possible to overcool
Here's some info from people in the know:
Overcooling your engine produces sludgy oil, acid buildup in the oil, low
power, poor economy, and short engine life, as well as an anemic heater.
Basically your engine is made to operate at a specific temperature and there is an optimal level. I'm not an engineer so i can't give specifics. If you start to mod your engine (ie compression changes and such) you begin to change the various optimal settings. Overcooling can effect the efficiency of your engine for the worse just as overheating can. Gasoline may not burn corectly within the cyclinder when the temperature gets to low. To give you a better idea when a person adds nos to the engine a different chemical reaction occurs. Even though the Nos is lowering the temperature of the engine it is also adding oxygen to provide more efficient combustion of the fuel. The nitrogen buffers the increased cylinder pressure controlling the combustion and the latent heat of vaporisation of the N2O reduces the intake temperature. That was from a chemical engineering website.
If you cool to much you will take performance away.
Here's some info from people in the know:
Overcooling your engine produces sludgy oil, acid buildup in the oil, low
power, poor economy, and short engine life, as well as an anemic heater.
Basically your engine is made to operate at a specific temperature and there is an optimal level. I'm not an engineer so i can't give specifics. If you start to mod your engine (ie compression changes and such) you begin to change the various optimal settings. Overcooling can effect the efficiency of your engine for the worse just as overheating can. Gasoline may not burn corectly within the cyclinder when the temperature gets to low. To give you a better idea when a person adds nos to the engine a different chemical reaction occurs. Even though the Nos is lowering the temperature of the engine it is also adding oxygen to provide more efficient combustion of the fuel. The nitrogen buffers the increased cylinder pressure controlling the combustion and the latent heat of vaporisation of the N2O reduces the intake temperature. That was from a chemical engineering website.
If you cool to much you will take performance away.
twogts4us
15 Year Member
Yep, you've got it, but I don't have any details to add either. All I can say is what you've essentially said - The engine was designed to run at a certain temp. And as someone else noted, cooled intake air (hense more oxygen/volume) produces more power.4.6_02_Black_GT said:
On a related note, my C&L Trueflow pipe gets hot as hell...which can't be good for performance. I'd wrap insulation around it if it wouldn't make it look like ass. On a 1/4 mile trip, it would have ice bags sitting on it before the run.
pthornton
Founding Member
The default temperature to switch from startup to stablized fuel tables is 180 degrees. If your car runs lower than 180, you are running off of the super rich startup tables and you will stay in open loop.
Cooled intake air does not equate more power. As with Turbo's and Superchargers the idea is that more air mean you can push more fuel into the engine. So if you increase the amount of air that an engine can recieve and the engine cannot change to match it then you will almost never get any more power. So with a K&N air filter, allows more air the engine can match that little amount and provide optimun fuel to compensate. With a Turbo and such you force more air into the engine. When you force a specific amount of air you compress the air which in turn causes the air to increase in temperature. In most cases a small boost will not increase the Air temperature to create problems such as detination. An intercooler will cool the compressed air so that the engine can create a optimal mixture of air/fuel. Temperature is very important and can effect ever aspect, too little or too much and you get the same result. Also desity of air makes for better combustion. I was told by an engine engineer for Ford that the under the bumper air intakes are a waste as they are getting cooler, but less dense air from under the bumper. The best spot for air intake is just above the bumper when the Air temperature is cool, but it is also dense. All this equates to a better and more efficient burn. In the overall the engine is expecting a specific amount of fuel and air. If you start changing them you change the optimal settings. Cooler air doesn't mean more power it just means you can get more air into the engine without causing problems. But the Fuel system has to be able to match with more fuel to make an efficient burn.
VicRattlehead
Founding Member
a little something I learned in my Thermo class this last semester is the hotter a heat engine can run, the more efficient the engine will be.
Efficiency = (1 - Qc/Qh)
where Qh = the amount of energy transferred from the Hot resovoir to the system.
and Qc = the amount of energy transferred from the system to the cold resovoir.
In the case of an engine i believe the hot resovoir to be the engine, and the cold resovoir to be the surroundings.
The warmer the hot resovoir is the higher the amount of energy transfered to the sorroundings by the engine, work is then done by that absobred heat energy, the leftover heat is then dissipated to the cold resovour (by the radiator).
The only reason to even have a radiator is to keep the engine from melting, if were were able to run at any temperature we wanted, our engines would put out much more horsepower per unit of gas burned.
Therefore I think you would want your car to run as warm as possible without ruining the engine, so as to why you want your engine to be "cold" all the time is beyond me.
I think I got that all right, if anyone knows otherwise let me know.
Efficiency = (1 - Qc/Qh)
where Qh = the amount of energy transferred from the Hot resovoir to the system.
and Qc = the amount of energy transferred from the system to the cold resovoir.
In the case of an engine i believe the hot resovoir to be the engine, and the cold resovoir to be the surroundings.
The warmer the hot resovoir is the higher the amount of energy transfered to the sorroundings by the engine, work is then done by that absobred heat energy, the leftover heat is then dissipated to the cold resovour (by the radiator).
The only reason to even have a radiator is to keep the engine from melting, if were were able to run at any temperature we wanted, our engines would put out much more horsepower per unit of gas burned.
Therefore I think you would want your car to run as warm as possible without ruining the engine, so as to why you want your engine to be "cold" all the time is beyond me.
I think I got that all right, if anyone knows otherwise let me know.
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