Is rebuilding with fox style intake and computer worth it?

[Zero Signal]

I had the notion of possibly converting the intake to a fox style without the elbow when I get around to putting the new motor in. I know there's plenty of info out there on that, so my real question is . . . How feasible is it to swap our computer/harness/sensors for an A9L based system? Bear in mind, I DO need to have an operational EGR and smog system where I live.

I'm sure I could get the parts for fairly cheap. I'd be giving up the tweecer that I already have unfortunately but I'd sell it to help fund a professional tune anyway.

I guess the idea would be that the A9L may be easier to deal with, with an H/C/I high-compression 347. Would the benefit be worth the trouble? Would there be any benefit at all?

 

[Labora]

Intake debatable depending on what your aiming for in your setup. Fox computer NO imo...

 

[final5-0]

I can't understand the thinking here John

You now got a Tweecer that will give you infinite tuning options

Why would you wanna give up such a great benefit

for

A stock Fox pcm which is not any more capable
of running such a combo than a 94-95 pcm

Just tune your new combo with the Tweecer to what ever it needs

I see NO benefit ... I see less ... WAY LESS ... options

Grady

 

[StinkinLincoln]

the fox conversion is useful if you want a 90mm tb, they dont make any for the sn's any more

 

[greenlantern]

Im gonna say yes to both. I don't care for the sn95 cold air intake setup. It hurts the mass air flows ability to get an adequate reading. The turn into the fender causes the air to roll as it hits the mass air and causes surging issues and stalling.

With regards to the A9L I like the computer it is much easier to tune with and more than capable of handling a 347. That being said if it were me I would still look into something like a PMS or chip for some fine tuning but I guess you could always do that later. Why this sudden change though if you already have the tweecer for your present comuter. As much as I hate the factory computer I would have to agree it is possible to do as you wish with what you have.

 

[BlackVert]

i'm with grady on this one

 

[Zero Signal]

I just figured it may be less finicky basically. But yeah with the tweecer, I may as well not bother. I just want to not have to constantly mess with it, it seems more people have better luck with A9L systems. I'll probably just do the professional dyno tune and make them use the tweecer to do it.

 

[greenlantern]

Well I guess this is where I part company with the rest of the heard. Nobody can feed me the "well its old technology argument" or the faster processor BS. I have personally used the A9L on a variety of different combos. I know guys who are running 347 combos with stock A9L programs and are running 12s. The computer is by far the most mod friendly plug and play computer I've ever seen. Hell I know guys running superchargers with the stock A9L program. Now keep in mind the more radical combo the more you will eventually either need or want to get some sort of tune, if nothing else for maximum HP. But unlike the T4M0 computer it ain't something you have to do the minute you open up the motor and start modding.

Folks here act like everyone is a stone throw away from professional tuners who know all about tuning 94-95 cars. This is not always the case, I found a tuner who was supposedly the best who caught all kinds of hell trying to tune mine and it had the stock computer in it at the time. By the time I got through paying him hell I could have bought 3 tweecers. Then theres the reburn. Any changes means you have to find the same tuner again and pay him again. If he's available, if he can fit you in or if he hasn't quit the shop where he did your car. Then of course no one knows where he is. It really pays to know how to tune your own car especially if you forsee yourself making changes in the future. I have heard really good things about the tweecer rt. Of course I have heard some nightmares too. I personally have never used it, but everyone seems to agree the learning curve is a PITA. The support for it hasn't impressed me either. Do the research and make your decisions based on what you find.

 

[final5-0]

I do see your points and you make some very good ones

Like most things ... It is all about a PARTICUALR application
John stated this PARTICULAR applicaton is a high compression 347

Yes ... I'm sure there are peeps who got such a combo to run on
an untouched Fox pcm

That is the thing I've seen about those who hold high the Fox pcm's

Why would you want to give up maximum gain with using one

That being said ... You are gonna tune it :Word:

Why go to all the trouble of switching out to the older pcm when
you can tune the original with just as much effectiveness

Now ... If you are depending on someone else to tune your Stang

They might be more familiar with the older pcm
but
That don't make the newer pcm's any less effective
and
You might wanna find a Pro Tuner with more experience

I see the same analogy as a fellow who doesn't wanna go to the trouble
of changing out his cam ... SO ... he puts in some 1.7 rockers

Will it work ... Yes
Was it easier than a cam change ... Yes
Was it cheaper ... Yes
Was a compromise made ... Yes

Hey ... Them Fox boys who want maximum power ...
I can assure you ... They be a tuning their fox box to leave behind no power

Then you got a lot of peeps who beat on the Tweecer
and
They usually throw up the ... steep learning curve

Give me a break ... Any method of self tuning is gonna require an investment
of money and time ... if ... one wants to be any good at it

The Tweecer has its problems for sure ... I don't deny that at all
but
It is a no frills, ecomomical way to get pcm access
and
You get datalogging with it as well
so
It does have its place in the group of more expnsive self tuners

My final thought would be .........

The 94-95 pcm is different than the Fox pcm
but
That don't make if any less effective
and
An untouched Fox pcm is not as great for ALL applications as a lot make it seem

Without a doubt ... You are right ... Fox pcm's are more forgiving of mods

I just think it is important to look long term with each and every mod
and
I see pcm's and their tuning as just ... another hot rod part

Grady

 

[Stevejr]

What is this tweecer yall keep referring to?

 

[Zero Signal]

The TwEECer -- EEC-IV user programmable module

It's a tuning device that interfaces with a laptop. You plug into your car's computer and it has a USB chord that dangles out that you plug in with. You use their program to tune and log data and you leave it plugged in like any other tuning chip.

 

[fordtech28]

Well I guess this is where I part company with the rest of the heard. Nobody can feed me the "well its old technology argument" or the faster processor BS. I have personally used the A9L on a variety of different combos. I know guys who are running 347 combos with stock A9L programs and are running 12s. The computer is by far the most mod friendly plug and play computer I've ever seen. Hell I know guys running superchargers with the stock A9L program. Now keep in mind the more radical combo the more you will eventually either need or want to get some sort of tune, if nothing else for maximum HP. But unlike the T4M0 computer it ain't something you have to do the minute you open up the motor and start modding.

Folks here act like everyone is a stone throw away from professional tuners who know all about tuning 94-95 cars. This is not always the case, I found a tuner who was supposedly the best who caught all kinds of hell trying to tune mine and it had the stock computer in it at the time. By the time I got through paying him hell I could have bought 3 tweecers. Then theres the reburn. Any changes means you have to find the same tuner again and pay him again. If he's available, if he can fit you in or if he hasn't quit the shop where he did your car. Then of course no one knows where he is. It really pays to know how to tune your own car especially if you forsee yourself making changes in the future. I have heard really good things about the tweecer rt. Of course I have heard some nightmares too. I personally have never used it, but everyone seems to agree the learning curve is a PITA. The support for it hasn't impressed me either. Do the research and make your decisions based on what you find.

I agree with Grady put it this way for example how can you make an old computer perform like a new one .The newer computer will have more advantage than an older one processing speed and all no matter how much you try to make it better than the older one.My point is that the 94-95 computers have a bad rap because tuners are afraid of them because of lack of experience i know alot of people that have had great luck tuning them your tuner was probably used to tuning just foxes and it also depends how radical you go I seen fox computers that dont respond to mods very well and I seen them change to the newer computer .Sorry for making this long I just dont see the point of using old technology in a newer car (Im a techy) even if you dont understand where I'm coming from

 

[Stevejr]

So ya don't have to go buy a chip or whatever Ya just plug this thing in and tune Whats it plug into a laptop? How much do they cost? Incase ya cant tell im new to the fuel injection/computer deal I been dirt trackin & trying to 4x4 lol.

 

[greenlantern]

I agree with Grady put it this way for example how can you make an old computer perform like a new one .The newer computer will have more advantage than an older one processing speed and all no matter how much you try to make it better than the older one.My point is that the 94-95 computers have a bad rap because tuners are afraid of them because of lack of experience i know alot of people that have had great luck tuning them your tuner was probably used to tuning just foxes and it also depends how radical you go I seen fox computers that dont respond to mods very well and I seen them change to the newer computer .Sorry for making this long I just dont see the point of using old technology in a newer car (Im a techy) even if you dont understand where I'm coming from

It always makes me laugh when 94-95 guys start talking about newer technology everytime the A9L gets compared to the T4MO. The car is 14 years old buddy, its ALL old technology. And your argument that the newer computer is gonna have a processing speed advantage over the older one means exactly what to you. You come back to me and break that down how that makes your car faster, I'll be waiting. You ever hear of a carburator? Talk about old technology.

I don't know about you but the last time I went to the track 11 and 12 second fox bodys where a dime a dozen, throw a rock and you would probably hit one. You know how many 11 and 12 second sn95s I saw.......... zero. Most of them were lucky to be in 13's. So much for newer technology.

With regards to tuners, its not that there afraid to tune them. Most of the tuners I have talked to just say it takes more time to tune them because there more complicated. What does that mean to you..........more money is exactly what that means. See is real easy to jump on the bandwagon until it starts costing you more money. And if you don't get it trust me you will. Ive been round and round with that computer and its cost me more money then I care to admit too. Listen is the T4MO gives you a warm fuzzy and you wanna go with it more power to you.

 

[fordtech28]

It always makes me laugh when 94-95 guys start talking about newer technology everytime the A9L gets compared to the T4MO. The car is 14 years old buddy, its ALL old technology. And your argument that the newer computer is gonna have a processing speed advantage over the older one means exactly what to you. You come back to me and break that down how that makes your car faster, I'll be waiting. You ever hear of a carburator? Talk about old technology.

I don't know about you but the last time I went to the track 11 and 12 second fox bodys where a dime a dozen, throw a rock and you would probably hit one. You know how many 11 and 12 second sn95s I saw.......... zero. Most of them were lucky to be in 13's. So much for newer technology.

With regards to tuners, its not that there afraid to tune them. Most of the tuners I have talked to just say it takes more time to tune them because there more complicated. What does that mean to you..........more money is exactly what that means. See is real easy to jump on the bandwagon until it starts costing you more money. And if you don't get it trust me you will. Ive been round and round with that computer and its cost me more money then I care to admit too. Listen is the T4MO gives you a warm fuzzy and you wanna go with it more power to you.

Well you bring up good points but the fact remains that just because people cant tune it to get it running right or understand it doesnt mean it sucks bro in our heck of the woods I seen more 94-95 run better than foxes with some mods dont get me wrong I like fox bodies it all depends on the tuner it takes as long to tune a 94-95 era mustang as a fox body once you get used to it ask all the guys here that are pros at tunning them.My car took less time to tune at my tuner than my friends fox body with some mods why? its all about the tuner you go to not the car's computer my tuner is more oriented to the 94-95 mustangs so he has it dialed in and it doesnt cost me more money. Its not rocket science and it doesnt mean more money unless the tuner you use just wants to ream you because its the red headed step child of mustangs.I also like when people say carburators are better in reality they are not they are cheaper to play and less hassel with sensors and stuff and a cleaner engine bay but thats about it why do all the pro drag racers use EFI .I agree about the technology in our cars is 14 years old but it doesnt mean it wont work just because people dont understand it.

 

[greenlantern]

Well you bring up good points but the fact remains that just because people cant tune it to get it running right or understand it doesnt mean it sucks bro in our heck of the woods I seen more 94-95 run better than foxes with some mods dont get me wrong I like fox bodies it all depends on the tuner it takes as long to tune a 94-95 era mustang as a fox body once you get used to it ask all the guys here that are pros at tunning them.My car took less time to tune at my tuner than my friends fox body with some mods why? its all about the tuner you go to not the car's computer my tuner is more oriented to the 94-95 mustangs so he has it dialed in and it doesnt cost me more money. Its not rocket science and it doesnt mean more money unless the tuner you use just wants to ream you because its the red headed step child of mustangs.I also like when people say carburators are better in reality they are not they are cheaper to play and less hassel with sensors and stuff and a cleaner engine bay but thats about it why do all the pro drag racers use EFI .I agree about the technology in our cars is 14 years old but it doesnt mean it wont work just because people dont understand it.

Well you raise good points as well. I will not argue that a good tuner makes all the difference in the world. It can literally make you or break you, that ain't no lie. So if your lucky enough to live near someone with proven experience, that knows how to tune these cars and won't rape you in the process by all means that would seem to me to be the way to go. Im not implying that carbs are better, my point was there is more then one way to skin a cat. The T4MO is not the end all solution. And for those of us who aren't lucky enough to live by the messiah of tuners there are other routes to go. And just because the A9L is older than the T4MO, doesn't mean it won't work either.

I recommend everyone learn how to tune there own car, I wouldn't get comforatble with the idea that someone else can do it. I think it leaves you dependent.

 

[YEAHLOH95]

i happen to like my t4mo it has served me well and i drove the car a year with hci and blower before i got it tuned . i agree that a good tuner can make all the difference in the world ,i would go aem before i put an a9l in my car.