Is there anyone on here that actually knows what they are talking about?

90Notch · Dec 11, 2004

That cam has a 114 LSA so shouldn't have taken much to tune it w/SD. I have not owned a SD car so I'm guessing when you say it was tuned for the cam your talking about a chip? Can you post your time slip (or write down) so we can see how it was driven. Where is timing and fuel pressure set at? I would work on tune first to make sure it is dead on before spending money on it. If tune is on I would consider pulling the chip then making a run to see if that tune is off.

When tune is correct then the first then you should replace is stock intake for Cobra. Forget the ported stocker if heads are in the plans, Cobras can be found used for short money.

Stock cam does work well with minor mods but the cam you have isn't all that bad and not worth pulling IMO.

Almost forgot if those are stock springs they need to come out NOW!

BlownStangGT · Dec 11, 2004

Heres a good one, how about you go to a dyno and see what the car is putting out...there you will be able to mess with air/fuel ration, fuel pressure and all that jazz, you will also be able to see how much hp and trq you are actually making, and then from thier you can do what ya gotta...but you will need to replce those springs

cleanLX · Dec 11, 2004

I don't know enough about the cam to comment.
Lets say the cam is no worse than stock as some of these guys indicate.
With your current mods 95mph is really not that good. My opinion is that a stocker with full exhaust, 4.10's and only 55,000 on the clock should be trapping well over 97... closer to 100mph if at sea level.

With an unknown cam and an unknown tune for the cam... well... stock cam and stock computer in a full weight fox should have that car running over 97mph.

That is my opinion.

blown1989saleen · Dec 11, 2004

the car would prolly actually be faster with the STOCK cam, i mean damn thats a pretty big cam, i make over 500rwhp and run a smaller cam than that. what made you put such a big cam with STOCK heads????and NO none of us have a clue what we're talking about.

Scott

90Notch · Dec 11, 2004

"i make over 500rwhp and run a smaller cam than that"

With what power adder? 215/220 @ 0.05" is not big at all, stock stuff and all. That cam will make more torque and HP from 2500 on while seeing very little difference below.

willys1 · Dec 11, 2004

cleanLX said:
I don't know enough about the cam to comment.
Lets say the cam is no worse than stock as some of these guys indicate.
With your current mods 95mph is really not that good. My opinion is that a stocker with full exhaust, 4.10's and only 55,000 on the clock should be trapping well over 97... closer to 100mph if at sea level.

With an unknown cam and an unknown tune for the cam... well... stock cam and stock computer in a full weight fox should have that car running over 97mph.

That is my opinion.

I have low mileage,410's stock cam and a 96 mph trap speed.But I think its a little low.

MatthewP · Dec 11, 2004

I'm going to assume that you are running a Comp 270HR part number 35-310-8. If so, your exhaust lift is actually .544 not .533 and your lobe center angle is 114*.

Despite some comments to the contrary on this thread, the duration of this cam is virtually the same as stock but with a slightly increased exhaust emphasis. Lift is about 20% greater than stock at the valve with 1.6 rockers. This cam is definitely superior to the stock cam and helps to compensate for the poor exhaust flow on the E7TE heads which you are using. It should also be perfectly compatible with your speed density computer.

As others have mentioned, if you are running stock valve springs, you should change them. The stock spring package isn't great to begin with, but is definitely not intended for use with a cam that has 20% more lift.

I can only surmise that you must be using street radial tires based on your 60 foot times. Try switching to ET Streets, Drag Radials, or Slicks and you should be able to run much better 60 foot times. A good rule of thumb is that 1/10th in the 60 is worth about 2/10's in the 1/4. If you continue to run street radials, make sure you reduce your tire pressure to around 24 psi and try launching around 2000 rpm. If you work at it, you should be able to come close to a 2.00 60 foot with that combination.

You didn't indicate the altitude of the track you are running at, however at a 3500 ft track with stock cam, heads, and intake, I ran 14.54@93.28 in a '90 coupe. With ported heads, stock cam, and an Explorer intake the same car ran 14.076@98.00 at the same track. Your car should be slightly better than mine in the 14.54 trim, and assuming a track elevation of around 800 ft I would guess that a high 13 should be possible with ET Streets.

Keep your cam, get the tires, and good luck.

-Matthew

fordman54935 · Dec 12, 2004

Just so you guys know, I bought the car with that cam in it. I didn't put it in, so i'm not exactly sure if the springs are stock or not. But thanks for all the advice, I think I'm gonna go with the Thumper heads and a ported lower intake. I appreciate all the input

fordman54935 · Dec 12, 2004

I almost forgot to ask this, but how do I go about removing the chip from the EEC computer?

BlownStangGT · Dec 12, 2004

fordman54935 said:
I almost forgot to ask this, but how do I go about removing the chip from the EEC computer?

take the computer out and unplug the chip.....oh yea wait..we dont know anything at all

BlownStangGT · Dec 12, 2004

90Notch said:
"i make over 500rwhp and run a smaller cam than that"

With what power adder? 215/220 @ 0.05" is not big at all, stock stuff and all. That cam will make more torque and HP from 2500 on while seeing very little difference below.

I am speeking up for scott....I belive he was refering to the lift numbers as do they are way bigger then the cam he is running, he is running the tfs stage 1 cam, specs are 221*/225* dur at .050" and lift is .499/.510, his combo is, tw heads, holley intake, 55 lbs inj, shorty headers, exhaust, s-trim at 13-15lbs, STOCK short block, and it makes 500+ rwhp

cleanLX · Dec 12, 2004

MatthewP said:
I'm going to assume that you are running a Comp 270HR part number 35-310-8. If so, your exhaust lift is actually .544 not .533 and your lobe center angle is 114*.

Despite some comments to the contrary on this thread, the duration of this cam is virtually the same as stock but with a slightly increased exhaust emphasis. Lift is about 20% greater than stock at the valve with 1.6 rockers. This cam is definitely superior to the stock cam and helps to compensate for the poor exhaust flow on the E7TE heads which you are using. It should also be perfectly compatible with your speed density computer.

Contrary to popular internet mythology, stock E7's are not exhaust restricted.
The cam in question, with it's exhaust bias is likely bleeding off valuable cylinder pressure... but, with out the valve timing events it's still all guess work.

MatthewP said:
I can only surmise that you must be using street radial tires based on your 60 foot times. Try switching to ET Streets, Drag Radials, or Slicks and you should be able to run much better 60 foot times. A good rule of thumb is that 1/10th in the 60 is worth about 2/10's in the 1/4. If you continue to run street radials, make sure you reduce your tire pressure to around 24 psi and try launching around 2000 rpm. If you work at it, you should be able to come close to a 2.00 60 foot with that combination.

I guess the important thing to remember is that experimenting(sp?) is a good idea wheel/tire combinations will react differently..
A typical radial tire on a proper sized rim doesn't like lower pressures or burnouts.
You had success with 24psi while my Comp T/A's liked to be smoked ever so lightly, and wanted 32psi.
Either way, I think a lot of folks try to launch too soft in fear of wheelspin and don't end up getting the weight transfer thay need, so, 60's suffer.
Either way, likely generous rpm combined with a partial snap of the clutch to get the nose up, then riding out a ways is what worked best for me. Nothing to write home about, but, 2.00's on comp t/a's was the best street tire 60 I could ever muster.

Ranchero5.0 · Dec 12, 2004

You're cam should be close to my Crane 2030. One note of caution, believe what you are told when you by a car, but verify it before trying to figure out other problems. Your cam (if like mine) should have a slightly lopier idle vs stock, should not bog or load up above 1500rpm, but may act up between 1k and 1500rpm. It should pull very well up to about 5.5k and then lay down.

You're times are not that bad regardless of what others think. I would do the mass air with the heads and put some good gauges in to monitor how it's running.

In the short term, do a ten minute tune up (timing, fuel pressure and TPS) and tune it in with what you have.

Jamie

rd · Dec 12, 2004

What are your sixty foots? It does take some pracice launching, especially with a stick car.

I would start with gears and tires, 3.73 or better and Drag Radials as a min.

Then tune the fuel pressure an timing, maybe a couple dyno pulls if you can.

A bit of weight loss, such as the front swaybar off for track days, etc.

Then exhaust, then heads and intake.

The Drag Radials alone gave me at least 3 tenths.

MatthewP · Dec 12, 2004

cleanLX said:
Contrary to popular internet mythology, stock E7's are not exhaust restricted.

This is not internet mythology. Take a look at E7 heads sometime and you will see the tiny exhaust ports which are further restricted by the thermactor humps and even the valve guides protruding into them. Port just the exhaust and run the same valvetrain and cam and you will pick up around 30 HP. I've worked pretty extensively with these heads and am actually working on a pair right now for one of my cars.

The exhaust restrictions on these heads are one of the primary reasons that most popular aftermarket cams (other than the FRPP cams) use a split pattern with an exhaust bias, such as the cam in question.

-Matthew

PNY PWR · Dec 12, 2004

If you had a TB, headers, intake and heads I think that cam would be good. I think you'd be better off with a stock cam right now.

I ran a 13.7@99 on a stock motor with gears, drag radials, 10* timing, and 89 octane.

E7's are very restrictive, a new set of heads alone is 50-100 HP. Depending on numerous variables.

jerry beach · Dec 12, 2004

PNY PWR said:
If you had a TB, headers, intake and heads I think that cam would be good. I think you'd be better off with a stock cam right now.

I ran a 13.7@99 on a stock motor with gears, drag radials, 10* timing, and 89 octane.

E7's are very restrictive, a new set of heads alone is 50-100 HP. Depending on numerous variables.

That is fast for stock! I am hoping to do that with tires soon. I have a stock SD car. Compare your time with mine, I am running 3:27 gears and use only 1-3rd in the 1/4. My best 60ft was 2.32, best ET, 14.67@98.41(2.325 60). My best trap was 98.79mph with 15.xx ET. I am spinning badly in first only, but it pulls really hard in first on the street because it hooks up there.

87'GTstang · Dec 12, 2004

MatthewP said:
This is not internet mythology. Take a look at E7 heads sometime and you will see the tiny exhaust ports which are further restricted by the thermactor humps and even the valve guides protruding into them. Port just the exhaust and run the same valvetrain and cam and you will pick up around 30 HP. I've worked pretty extensively with these heads and am actually working on a pair right now for one of my cars.

The exhaust restrictions on these heads are one of the primary reasons that most popular aftermarket cams (other than the FRPP cams) use a split pattern with an exhaust bias, such as the cam in question.

-Matthew

Thank you.........

fordman54935 · Dec 12, 2004

MatthewP said:
This is not internet mythology. Take a look at E7 heads sometime and you will see the tiny exhaust ports which are further restricted by the thermactor humps and even the valve guides protruding into them. Port just the exhaust and run the same valvetrain and cam and you will pick up around 30 HP. I've worked pretty extensively with these heads and am actually working on a pair right now for one of my cars.

The exhaust restrictions on these heads are one of the primary reasons that most popular aftermarket cams (other than the FRPP cams) use a split pattern with an exhaust bias, such as the cam in question.

-Matthew

I like the what I am hearing I think that would be worth a try.

cleanLX · Dec 12, 2004

MatthewP said:
This is not internet mythology. Take a look at E7 heads sometime and you will see the tiny exhaust ports which are further restricted by the thermactor humps and even the valve guides protruding into them. Port just the exhaust and run the same valvetrain and cam and you will pick up around 30 HP. I've worked pretty extensively with these heads and am actually working on a pair right now for one of my cars.

I have looked at E7's, many times.
If you'd like to continue believing they are exhaust restricted more power to you.
The more people that tho cams designed to correct the precieved issue... well, happy spending...

MatthewP said:
The mythology is too strong to combat.
The exhaust restrictions on these heads are one of the primary reasons that most popular aftermarket cams (other than the FRPP cams) use a split pattern with an exhaust bias, such as the cam in question.

-Matthew

The aftermarket cams designed are primarly based on aftermarket heads, which have a great intake bias...
Not that anyone wants to hear or believe that...
I'd like to see the results of exhaust massaged heads, and timeslips... 30hp from exhaust alone is most impressive with no other work done.
Odd, that Mouse from Corral, who has worked the heck out of E7's with flow bench data has commented that removing the "bump" basically has no positive effect, and that Buddy Rawls, who is a custom cam guru has stated that E7's are not exhaust restricted many times, and does not spec exhaust bias'd cams for stockers, would be so mistaken.
I should imagine these guys bench data, and stock, and super stock racing experience has little weight in the mythology world.

Odd as well is a friend of mines lightend Fox, running drag suspension, and making more peak hp and tq from modified exhaust E7's, running in better d/a ran same ET and mph as my untouched heads/long block in a heavier car with softer 60'... guess average power must have suffered.

Happy trails... and long live the myth.

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