It looks like i may have to have my ABS bled?

[Night Shifter]

ok, i installed 13" cobra brakes...everything went pertty smooth...everything is aslo installed correctly....

bled MC then to RR, LR, RF, LF.....spongey crappy brakes...did this for 3 hours, NO BRAKES..just mush and sponge...

took it to a friends shop...they used a brake bleeding kit... pedal is still spongy with no pressure until you put it to the floor...

broke down, went to for ford them to see what was going on..they say it just needs bled... they bleed them, same deal...spongy pedal and they only work once the pedal is pushed all the way down....

im outa ideas...will they get better or am i looking at the $100 abs scan tool for them to do what they need with the abs system? i tried a bunch of hard braking today while i was out and they didn't seem to get any better

i also used the search button and i have definatly bled them right and after 2 shops, 1 being ford, bleeding them i should have the best brakes on the planet... any suggestions or am i paying ford another visit tomorrow?? thanks guys

 

[SONIC02]

bled MC - What do you mean by this?

 

[Night Shifter]

master cylinder

 

[SONIC02]

I should of asked how did you do this. I installed cobra brakes and didn't bleed the master cylinder. I never even seen that in any how to thread. I just ask cause you listed it as if you sucked out fluid from the master cylinder on it's own then moved onto the brakes. I don't know if there are valves on the abs for you to bleed but you would think ford would've done that. Maybe the scan tool can be rented from auto zone. Sorry I'm not much help I'm just curious how you bled the master cylinder.


Ah i just read up on abs scan tools... Doesn't look like something you can rent.

 

[Night Shifter]

scan tool=ford

on your master cylinder there are 2 lines that go into the bottom of the cylinder.. front lines goes to rear brakes, rear line goes to front(correct me if im wrong guys)

you bleed it like you bleed your brakes... have someone push in brake pedal and open valve to bleed.. i think i used an 11mm wrench..pretty simple..once you open your hood and look at it you'll see what im talking about and you'll know exactly what i mean...i had no idea how to do it either... actually i had no idea it could even be done till my step dad told me to do it..

bleed that, then go to back of car and start from there... maybe you'll get luck and you'll have brakes lol....i just have bad juju and want to go through every solution i can get before i get this thing scanned

abs needs valves....damn ford

 

[Night Shifter]

awesome so they say my hydroboost is leakin/cracked... guess i found my problem...i dont get why it would show its face now... the car stopped fine before the cobra brakes were on

 

[nizzo]

awesome so they say my hydroboost is leakin/cracked... guess i found my problem...i dont get why it would show its face now... the car stopped fine before the cobra brakes were on

you need to use a power bleeder........



go look it up on ebay they are like $50 i just bought one for the exact same problem (cept i did a simple rear end brake pad change that ended up not being so simple.

i googled the $hit out of the problem and it seems like a lot of people say to use a power bleeder.

Ill let you know if mine works

 

[Night Shifter]

you need to use a power bleeder........



go look it up on ebay they are like $50 i just bought one for the exact same problem (cept i did a simple rear end brake pad change that ended up not being so simple.

i googled the $hit out of the problem and it seems like a lot of people say to use a power bleeder.

Ill let you know if mine works

Posted via Mobile Device ive had it bled with power bleeders twice now with no luck..just went to check this problem out and sure enough the hydroboost was leakin like a mofo...ghey

 

[joshheat25]

I dunno how you did that?? did you turn your car on??? your car shouldn't be running when your bleeding your brakes.. Other than that.. Sounds like you did it right! As long as your bleeding the master in the right spot.

 

[Night Shifter]

never turned the car on while bleeding...oh well i guess.. new hydroboost + 13" brakes should make for hella good stopping

 

[Mustang5L5]

How/Where is your hydroboost leaking from??



+1 on bleeding the two bleeders on the MC. I had the same issue with spongy brakes afer my 13" install. Bleed the MC screws and problem solved!

 

[hotcobra03]

bleeding brakes

what type of fluid is leaking at mc/hydro booster?if the mc blew out you will see brakefluid between mc/hydro,,,if its the hydro booster it will be power steering fluid leaking....hydro boost has been around since the fiftys and is very reliable.....when bleeding brakes ,i suggest not to pump up the pedal,,crack bleeder than push pedal down..this pushes fluid..pumping the pedal moves air bubble back and forth,, not thru ...a hand held vacuum pump is the best for this job,,double check the copper washers on the banjo bolts..and when bleeding mc in the car beware of the brake fluid,,it will remove paint and rust will start,,only answer i dont have for you is if the mc is big enough to supply fluid to the bigger calipers with the upgrade you did?

 

[hotcobra03]

brakes by ford

some reading for you........as you will read they say pump pedal ,,a couple of times 2 is acouple...why i dont like that way is cause a bleeder ball or vacuum pump you will never have to pump the pedal.and these tools seem to fix problems the pumping caused.....SECTION 206-00: Brake System — General Information 2003 Mustang Workshop Manual
GENERAL PROCEDURES Procedure revision date: 03/18/2002

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Bleeding —Components Printable View (224 KB)

Special Tool(s) Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS)
418-F224,

New Generation STAR (NGS) Tester
418-F052, or equivalent scan tool
NGS Flash Cable
418-F120 (007-00531) or Equivalent

Master Cylinder Priming — In-Vehicle or Bench

WARNING: Brake fluid contains polyglycol ethers and polyglycols. Avoid contact with eyes. Wash hands thoroughly after handling. If brake fluid contacts eyes, flush eyes with running water for 15 minutes. Get medical attention if irritation persists. If taken internally, drink water and induce vomiting. Get medical attention immediately.

CAUTION: Do not allow the brake master cylinder reservoir to run dry during the bleeding operation. Keep the brake master cylinder reservoir filled with the specified brake fluid. Never reuse the brake fluid that has been drained from the hydraulic system.

CAUTION: Brake fluid is harmful to painted and plastic surfaces. If brake fluid is spilled onto a painted or plastic surface, immediately wash it with water.

NOTE: When any part of the hydraulic system has been disconnected for repair or installation of new components, air can enter the system and cause spongy brake pedal (2455) action. This requires bleeding of the hydraulic system after it has been correctly connected. The hydraulic system can be bled manually or with pressure bleeding equipment.

NOTE: When a new brake master cylinder (2140) has been installed or the system has been emptied, or partially emptied, it should be primed to prevent air from entering the system.

For in-vehicle priming, disconnect the brake lines.

For bench priming, mount the brake master cylinder (2140) in a vise.

Install short brake tubes with the ends submerged in the brake master cylinder reservoir (2K478), and fill the brake master cylinder reservoir with High Performance DOT 3 Brake Fluid C6AZ-19542-AB or equivalent DOT 3 fluid meeting Ford specification ESA-M6C25-A.

Have an assistant pump the brake pedal (2455), or slowly depress the primary piston until clear fluid flows from both brake tubes, without air bubbles.
If the brake master cylinder has been primed at the bench, install it in the vehicle. For additional information, refer to Section 206-06 .
Remove the short brake tubes, and install the brake outlet tubes.

Bleed each brake tube at the brake master cylinder as follows:
Have an assistant pump the brake pedal, and then hold firm pressure on the brake pedal.
Loosen the rear most brake tube fittings until a stream of brake fluid comes out. While the assistant maintains pressure on the brake pedal, tighten the brake tube fitting.
Repeat this operation until clear, bubble-free fluid comes out.
Refill the brake master cylinder reservoir as necessary. Repeat the bleeding operation at the front brake tube.

Master Cylinder Priming — 4.6L

CAUTION: Use only bleed screws on the engine side of the brake master cylinder (2140). The hydro-boost bleed screw, located near the dash on the hydro-booster casting, is for the booster cavity filled with power steering fluid, not brake fluid.

Connect a clear waste line to the bleed screw closet to the booster first and the other end in a container partially filled with recommended brake fluid.

Open the bleeder screw, have an assistant push the brake pedal down slowly through full travel, close the bleeder screw, then return brake pedal slowly to full released position. Wait five seconds, then repeat operation until air bubbles cease to appear.
Repeat Step 2 for bleeder screw farthest from hydro-booster.

Four Wheel Anti-Lock Brake System (4WABS) Hydraulic Control Unit (HCU)

NOTE: This procedure only needs to be performed if the 4-wheel anti-lock brake (4WABS) hydraulic control unit (HCU) has been installed new or if the HCU lines have been opened.

Clean all dirt from and remove the brake master cylinder filler cap (2162), and fill the brake master cylinder reservoir (2K478) with the specified brake fluid.

Connect a clear waste line to the RH rear bleeder screw (2208) and the other end in a container partially filled with recommended brake fluid.

Loosen the RH rear bleeder screw until a stream of brake fluid comes out. While the assistant maintains pressure on the brake pedal (2455), tighten the RH rear bleeder screw.
Repeat until clear, bubble-free fluid comes out.
Refill the brake master cylinder reservoir as necessary.
Tighten the RH rear bleeder screw, and disconnect the waste line.

Repeat Steps 2, 3 and 4 for the LH rear bleeder screw, the RH front disc brake caliper (2B120) bleeder screw, and the LH front disc brake caliper bleeder screw, in that order.

Connect the scan tool DCL cable adapter into the vehicle data link connector (DLC) under the dash, and follow the scan tool instructions.

Repeat the system bleed procedure as outlined in Steps 1 through 5.
Caliper

NOTE: It is not necessary to do a complete brake system bleed if only the disc brake caliper (2B120) was disconnected.

Place a box end wrench on the disc brake caliper bleeder screw (2208). Attach a rubber drain tube to the disc brake caliper bleeder screw, and submerge the free end of the tube in a container partially filled with clean brake fluid.

Have an assistant pump the brake pedal (BP) (2455) and then hold firm pressure on the brake pedal.
Loosen the disc brake caliper bleeder screw until a stream of brake fluid comes out. While the assistant maintains pressure on the brake pedal, tighten the disc brake caliper bleeder screw.
Repeat until clear, bubble-free fluid comes out.
Refill the brake master cylinder reservoir (2K478) as necessary.
Tighten the disc brake caliper bleeder screw. Refer to Specifications.



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[hotcobra03]

upgrade

question? the car before was abs with vacuum powerbooster...upgrade is cobra front brakes and hydroboost system?i ask cause in ford book they show 2 different abs systems....cobra has more lines on it than gt..not that this is a problem ,just wanted to know how much was changed?

 

[Night Shifter]

question? the car before was abs with vacuum powerbooster...upgrade is cobra front brakes and hydroboost system?i ask cause in ford book they show 2 different abs systems....cobra has more lines on it than gt..not that this is a problem ,just wanted to know how much was changed?

yeah, abs with vaccuum...just upgraded the brakes...you can hear air wooshing out of the power steering resivior before the hydrobooster leak was found. its not leaking at the MC, you can see the hole in the booster

thanks for the huge read...good info

 

[hotcobra03]

hydrobooster..

low brakes or no pedal is not from booster,, booster is only used to assist braking,,,has nothing to do with a low pedal...they are two different systems.your brakes should work even with a bad or no booster, but have hard pedal.as to the hole,,if thats about a quarter inch sized hole, than its suppost to be thier,its a weep hole.hydrobooster is rebuildable,and seals are most common to leak,...so tell me if im right? you took off your power booster and mc.and replaced it with hydrboost and used your mc from the car,,,how about the inside of car brakepedal system?was that part of the swap?Did the holes in the fire wall line up for hydrbooster or did holes need to be made oblong?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,SECTION 206-07: Power Brake Actuation 2003 Mustang Workshop Manual
DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION Procedure revision date: 03/18/2002

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Brake Booster —Hydro-Boost Printable View (32 KB)
The Hydro-Boost brake booster is a hydraulically operated brake booster powered by the power steering pump (3A674). The power steering pump provides the fluid pressure to operate both the power brake booster and the power steering gear (3504).

A Hydro-Boost reserve system (accumulator) stores sufficient fluid under pressure to provide at least two power-assisted brake applications in the event the power steering pump fluid flow is interrupted.

For low assist concerns on vehicles equipped with the Hydro-Boost system, refer to Section 211-00 to check the power steering pump pressure and flow.


Item Part Number Description
1 2140 Master cylinder
2 2B559 Hydro-Boost

The brakes can also be applied manually if the reserve system is depleted.

Any leakage goes directly back to the power steering pump reservoir (3E764).



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SECTION 206-07: Power Brake Actuation 2003 Mustang Workshop Manual
GENERAL PROCEDURES Procedure revision date: 08/20/2003

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Hydro-Boost Bleeding Printable View (15 KB)
NOTE: The Hydro-Boost power brake booster (2B560) is generally self-bleeding, and the following procedure will normally bleed the air from the power brake booster. Normal operation of the vehicle will further remove any additional trapped air.

Fill the power steering oil reservoir (3A697) with MERCON® Multi-Purpose ATF XT-2-QDX or MERCON® equivalent.
Remove the powertrain control module (PCM) fuse to prevent the engine from starting.

Crank the engine for several seconds.
Check the fluid level in the power steering oil reservoir and add if necessary. Install the powertrain control module (PCM) fuse.
Start the engine.
With the engine running, turn the steering wheel (3600) from stop-to-stop twice. Turn the engine off.
Depress the brake pedal (2455) several times to discharge the accumulator.
Repeat Steps 5 and 6.
If foaming occurs, stop the engine and allow the foam to dissipate.
Repeat Steps 5 and 6 as required, until all the air is removed from the system (when the foaming stops).


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[hotcobra03]

hydro-booster

bendix makes the booster,,look in this link at exploded views of chevys booster,,they are the same,,if not close.......................brake system

 

[Night Shifter]

you sir are the brake system king.... and you were also correct, hydroboost is fine. Thanks cause you just saved me around $300..

there was a problem with the MC, replaced it and i have brakes..just weird/bad timing for me to find the problem..

thanks for the info though..im definatly keeping this on hand for the near future

 

[hotcobra03]

brakes

glad to here your fixed...enjoy you new stopping power,what type of pads did you use?prb pads i have found are the best for many highspeed to 0 stops,,,ive tryed ,bendix,wagner,motorcraft,,none of these work after 2 highspeed stops,,,im gonna try hawk pads next,,prb cost around 300 for front pads,but well worth the money,,only problem ive found with cobra brakes,is i have to drive on a super bumpy dirt road to get to highway,and the rings that snap into caliper to hold pads in keep breaking from the bumps,had the caliper come up once and go figure it was the day after installing a new wheel,,scratched up the rim pretty good,

 

[Night Shifter]

the pads i have are whatever came in the buyfordracing.com kit...the 10th anniverssary version..

damn, my road is like a wagon trail the first like 300 feet before i get to crappy pavement then to actual road.. i hope my rings can handle it