I've officially decided to go turbo on my 68

180 Out · Feb 16, 2006

DarkoStoj said:
Is EFI a better way to go then blowthrough? What about tuning it? Would I have to get a custom chip burned or what? What about hooking my laptop to it to make sure it flashed "Danger to manifold" if I have problems to make sure I don't blow the welds on the intake

If you keep the carb, then you can incessantly quote Dennis Wilson in "Two Lane Blacktop," incessantly muttering "it's the jets," "I think it's the jets," AND Vin Diesel about the intake welds.

Waitaminnit, isn't it noss that messes up the intake welds?

10secgoal · Feb 16, 2006

paul302 said:
i doubt that Darkostoj, with his no cutting on, cherry '68 will be leaving full tilt either. (besides, an auto will be quicker, not faster)

Yeah yeah, haha. But quicker(E.T.) is what's important.
I don't wanna get into apissing contest here guys. I could just post a Glidden link with an auto. I'm not saying they don't work. Wolverine granny shifts his street driven, street car into the 9's. But youd don't think an auto is better in every aspect for a turbo ? Load at the line, no lost boost between shifts ?Except mybe auto cross ?

mtbdoc · Feb 17, 2006

Glad we are having more discussion about turbos and classic mustangs. I just got back from my friend's shop where we are getting back to work on my 66 vert. I have a couple of engines, and a KB 2.2 blower ready...but we are both so stoked about my GTO turbo, that we are still considering options.

This car would be easy as the shock towers are gone [R&C Motorsports front end]. Hadn't thought about accessories, though. I will put a/c in this car, even though convertibles should always have the top down. Trouble is, down here in the south it just gets too hot in the summer.

As far as the rear mount turbo, I can fill you in about that, having done this to my goat. There is a touch of lag, but with a strong V8 it really isn't much of an issue. Perhaps a half second or so when you first get into it, but once it is spooled up and hot, it responds instantly. It is a great addition to a late-model daily driver, but I would prefer to go front mount with the older car. Maybe there isn't as much room as I thought.

I take it that no one has tried to adapt a kit from a 5.0 fox-body car? For those of use with the shock tower removed, there is a lot of room on the sides.

TUR-BO, TUR-BO, TUR-BO [let's keep this chant going!].

And no, I don't think that a 68 fastback with turbo would be the coolest. Clearly a 66 vert...or maybe a 65 2+2...with turbo! I'm just trying to convince the wife that I really do NEED the convertible with a turbo, the 2+2 w/ the KB and track suspension...and of course, the goat for my daily driver.

10secgoal · Feb 17, 2006

A 5.0 kit would fit. The DP probably wouldn't. But since it's build for a 5.0, the turbo wouldn't be in the ideal spot, and forget about an IC.
Doc, have you thought about a smaller housing ? If you don't plan on going with a ton more boost, would probably do you some good.

BIG-MAC · Feb 18, 2006

68stang351 said:
Please just keep us posted on this build, because I too have bitten by the turbo bug. I want one so bad! A 351w with a turbo in a 68 coupe, it would be awesome.

amen brother

mtbdoc · Mar 4, 2006

10secgoal said:
A 5.0 kit would fit. The DP probably wouldn't. But since it's build for a 5.0, the turbo wouldn't be in the ideal spot, and forget about an IC.
Doc, have you thought about a smaller housing ? If you don't plan on going with a ton more boost, would probably do you some good.

Just saw your Q. If you are asking about the rear-mount, a smaller A/R is definitely useful on these cars. I have a .81A/R w/ a GT4067 turbo which does quite well.

I am giving a LOT more thought to a turbo for my 'vert. Those missing shock towers are just CALLING OUT for turbo and ass'd plumbing. Been reading up on the blow-through carbs over on T-mustangs...it would be cool to stay away from efi on this car, just use an MSD w/ boost retard. Minimize the wiring. The 331 B50 shortblock ought to be okay for 600-650 rwhp...and if it goes, well, I'd be FORCED to buy a Dart...and turn up the boost!

Even worse: I was looking at the World Products 460W shortblock on Summit. Buy some 351 turbo headers...twins would clearly be the order of the day for that many cubes.

What about an intercooler? Is there enough room to mount one in front of the core support, or would it have to go behind, moving the radiator back?

Paul302, everytime I look at those pictures of yours I...well, never mind. Suffice it to say that is ART! But what about an intercooler?

The wife is actually sort-of okay with my using the KB and a warmed-over 306/T5 I picked up to "motivate" the 2+2. I don't want a zillion hp in that car...just 400-450rwhp. We've got the wheels/tires sitting under the 'vert to mock up the rear axles...12" of rubber looks sooooo bad.

Well, enough of all that. Just had to bring up this thread again.

65ShelbyClone · Mar 5, 2006

mtbdoc said:
Even worse: I was looking at the World Products 460W shortblock on Summit. Buy some 351 turbo headers...twins would clearly be the order of the day for that many cubes.

You don't think a giant single would be cool on 460 inches? An HX60 would probably fit the bill(but maybe not under the hood).

Then again, a pair of HX40s might also. Hey, how about four .60/.63 T3s? Each one is good for about 275hp.....

10secgoal · Mar 5, 2006

You can fit an IC back there. I got stupid with mine because of the motor and CFm I plan to move with the next one. I am only going to need to move the grill forward.

(Paul runs race gas, so no IC)

classic boost · Mar 8, 2006

mtbdoc said:
But what about an intercooler?

i run straight 110 race gas, plus a carb acts like an intercooler. i have a meth kit i'll be adding soon. i need to buy another boost gauge, mine only goes up to 20psi

10secgoal · Mar 8, 2006

paul302 said:
i run straight 110 race gas, plus a carb acts like an intercooler. i have a meth kit i'll be adding soon. i need to buy another boost gauge, mine only goes up to 20psi

I was reading you were already up to 20 on TM. I knew you couldn't stay there for long. It's a struggle to keep it at 7.(This is why I bought a plastic bonnet. Kinda like a boost control for me.)

classic boost · Mar 9, 2006

i was kidding about going more than 20psi. if i can't get it done with 20, then i should just keep it in the garage.

mtbdoc · Mar 9, 2006

I took some measurements, and have found the beast that is needed:

This looks like just the ticket for a >750hp setup...and it is the right shape. Some trimming of sheetmetal is needed, and I'll have to notch the back of my GT350R lower valence.

Next: do I go to something more stout than the 331 Ford B50 [sportsman] block I have? I realize that anything over 600rwhp is going to mean death to that block...and I am quite serious about what I want to do in this car [can you say single-digit convertible?]. Trouble is, a Dart short-block setup is near $5000 from a reputable dealer...and then I can't very well run the AFR 185's that I have...do you see where this is going?

The whole plan is shifting to doing the 331/AFR/KB blower in the 65 2+2, built as a road course car, and maybe going totally SICK with this 'vert.

As such, I am honestly toying with the 427 or 460W short block from World. Add >10psi boost, and I'm home free! Well, not free...

Now...where did I see that money tree?

10secgoal · Mar 9, 2006

I stayed away from those designs. Most of the air is going to pass across the top and leave the lower half doing close to nothing as far as heat extracting is concerned.

Paul, 10 psi will get it done I'm sure. But when is getting it done ever enough ?

rhyno9 · Mar 9, 2006

10secgoal said:
10 psi will get it done I'm sure. But when is getting it done ever enough ?

I once had a friend who said to me "you will never be able to know what is enough without finding out what's too much......."

He said that while hugging the toilet after a rough night at the bar. I really do think that's there is a valuable lesson to learn with cars also.

We build these rediculous engines only to brake the trans. Then we fix the trans and brake the rear. The cycle continues until the damn car can no longer be driven because it's now too fast.

So you are thinking what in the hell am I talking about...........no I wasn't at the bar this evening either

The concept relates to cars in that a turbo-charged car can show you "too much" and then once you have "too much" you can dial the boost back to "just right".

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

65ShelbyClone · Mar 10, 2006

rhyno9 said:
The concept relates to cars in that a turbo-charged car can show you "too much" and then once you have "too much" you can dial the boost back to "just right".

Yeah, you try feeling to much power and then see if less is anywhere near "enough."

I think it's like that in theory, but not in reality. With my SVO, I ran it for like an hour on the "unleaded" ECU setting(10psi and really conservative timing curve). I put premium in it, flipped the "premium" switch(14psi, more timing), and I can't go back. It'll be hell when I get the hybrid turbo and supporting parts.

I still have to see about putting dual KKK K30s on my '68.

mtbdoc · Mar 10, 2006

10secgoal said:
I stayed away from those designs. Most of the air is going to pass across the top and leave the lower half doing close to nothing as far as heat extracting is concerned.

Paul, 10 psi will get it done I'm sure. But when is getting it done ever enough ?

Nah...pressurize the system, and air will flow wherever it has the least resistance. Once you have a few psi pushing, flow should all find "the path of least resistance"! And I would likely run it 'upside-down' so even at lower flow, there will be a tendency for the hot charge to rise.

My mechanic/partner-in-crime who is so involved in all of my projects says he'd like this car to be something that gives you a sense of mild fear every time you crank it up. My wife does NOT get to hear that sort of talk out of us, however. That is where a nice boost controller comes in!

10secgoal · Mar 10, 2006

mtbdoc said:
Nah...pressurize the system, and air will flow wherever it has the least resistance. Once you have a few psi pushing, flow should all find "the path of least resistance"!

Don't you think the path of least resistance is going to only be across the top...just a thought.

Shelby, the more I think about it the more I think I may stop at 800hp. Or somewhere in that area. As long as it's till fun at the track and can get it to hook, or relatively so, then I haven't gone to far.

180 Out · Mar 10, 2006

If I were buying one of those race blocks, I would stick with the standard bore of 4.125, which gives you 454 ci with a 4.250 stroke. That way you have three .020 overbores or two .030's in your pocket for rebuilds -- verily a lifetime supply. The 4.155 bore of the World 460 steals one of those .030's and two of the .020's. Also, I would guess that 4.125 pistons are easier to find than 4.155's.

A single digit car requires quite a lot of safety equipment. Specifically, I do not like the looks of a cage on a convertible. Doesn't a 9.999 sec car also require an upgraded driver's license? Or is it 9.499 where things really start to tighten up?

Don't get me wrong, mtbdoc. My hat's off to your plan for an IC turbo 460 small block. The world can't have enough 1000 rwhp Fords.

My own daydream is a junkyard 351 with an all-forged Scat 408 kit and some CHI 3V heads and Clevor intake, and possibly a rear turbo with a blow-through carb. That ought to be enough to make a '65 unsafe to drive. In fact, without the turbo it'd be in the mid to high 500 fwhp range. Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords just built one with a too big cam and got over 600 hp.

10secgoal · Mar 10, 2006

That's the thing. I agree with you. I don't want a jungle gym for a daily driver.

mtbdoc · Mar 10, 2006

Agreed...it needs to be a workable and RELATIVELY pleasant car to drive...until the boost is cranked up.

I had a lengthy conversation w/ Brian [ADPerformance] about 3 hrs ago. We were discussing the relative merits and problems of different setups. In summary, I think that a Dart Sportsman 351 w/ a 4" stroke, 4.030 piston looks good. Part of that is simply that to drop the compression in a larger bore requires a custom piston [to get enough dish to drop the CR], and that adds a month of lead time. 408 cu in is enough, and at 6-8 psi in normal operation, it would be plenty fast. Then, 15 psi would be stupid/scary fast.

I really haven't read the NHRA rules about what constitutes a full cage. This car had two VERY STOUT rollbars behind each seat [two seater configuration...which is what the cars were SUPPOSED to be in the first place!], and we are doing the dash bars/front-end bars. Already have added a lot of structural steel in building the rear end and tying it into the unibody up front [and the mounts for the roll bars]. If there is a requirement for an overhead cage that goes along the A-pillars and connects to the back...well, that's out! So, run [at low boost] a bit at the strip to get comfortable, then turn up the boost and get thrown off the track.

10sec: once there are a few psi [and that's the only time you NEED the intercooler] the air will definitely 'spread out', using all of the available cross section.

I've officially decided to go turbo on my 68

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