Just got a 429......how to extract 500 HP?

[tamadrummer88]

Hey guys, as I am new to mustangs, I am still learning, so please bear with me.

I just picked up a 70 T-Bird, which i took the car just for the engine....a 429 thunderjet, with a C6. I've confirmed the VIN, and it is indeed a 360 HP 429.

Now, I've known that ford underrated these engines, and total output is close to 400. Now I've had a rebuild in mind, as this will go into my 68 Fastback.

I want to do the following:

bottom end rebuild: Stock bottom end, cleaned, and balanced, lightweight damper.
stock heads, Ported and polished, 3 angle valve job, Comp cams 1.7:1 roller rockers
JBA headers, 2.75'' piping, Flowmaster 40 series mufflers finishing into 3'' tips
Edelbrock dual quad setup and the appropriate carbs to match it up
A mild Comp cam to match the carb and manifold setup
March serpentine pulleys, no fan. will be running electric fan
MSD ignition and distributor.

I am looking for 500 WHP, not 500 crank HP. It has always been my dream to have a 500 HP car. Is this all good enough? BTW, it will be running a 4 speed.

Thanks!

John

 

[67GTA-FB429]

Are you doing a Mustang II conversion? If not, I don't think the JBA headers will fit.

Also, go with a roller cam if you can get it to fit.

Bore at least 0.030, deck the heads and block to boost compression.

Get hardened seats put in for the valves.

Is that a high rise intake?

 

[302 coupe]

Ditch the dual quads. You can make more power and save some money by using a single carb. Dual quads look nice, but then again, so do six strombergs. The heads will be ok, so long as the porter knows what BBF heads need. For the cam, go roller if budget allows, it'll cost about $400 more than a flat tappet setup, but its worth it. Don't be scared to use a 'big' cam in a 429, the displacement tends to tame most cam grinds. I'd guess something around .570-.580 lift will be needed, but I'm not a BBF guru. I also don't think the JBA's will work. Check out the website for Crites Restoration and also Ford Powertrain Applications, they have some specialty parts for swapping the big 385 series engines in to 67-68 cars.

Eleanor clone? Why? I thought that fad had already passed......

 

[Dark Knight]

I'd pick up a 460 crank, rods and pistons.. 31 more cubes...
http://mpgheads.com/ makes a swap kit, so does crites I think

head on over here
http://www.network54.com/Forum/267359
or to the forums..

talk to Scott Johnston too, at http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/
knows quite a bit about 429/460 builds.. he's doing my Kaase SCJ's right now
If you want, he'll port one intake and exhaust port and let you match the rest to it..save some $$

might check out http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/429-460Stangs/ for more swap info

 

[tamadrummer88]

I'd pick up a 460 crank, rods and pistons.. 31 more cubes...

I already have a 460 lying around, so I should take the rods and pistons along with the crank? I was gonna get rid of the 460 because it's overall HP rating was VERY LOW!

Are you doing a Mustang II conversion? If not, I don't think the JBA headers will fit

Yes, I will be doing a mustang II conversion in the future.




To answer most questions, no it is not a high rise intake. I should stick with a single carb? Also, wont a roller cam give me a VERY LOPEY idle? Oh and, the stock botton end and heads will be good for 500 WHP?

Budget? 2500-3500.00

Eleanor clone a fad? I dont think so. When I finish, Ill be the first and only one in HI to have done the transformation.

John


PS: Thanks again for all the Help you guys have given me. Thanks for helping me with my 500 HP goal and dream!

 

[67GTA-FB429]

When I did mine 13 years ago it ran about $6500.

You better do the MII conversion first. It will make the whole installation easier. Trust me.

 

[tamadrummer88]

How much HP are you running? IN your opinion, what would it take for that motor to make 500 WHP, with just stock heads?


John

 

[tamadrummer88]

bump for me

John

 

[67GTA-FB429]

check the sig. I have stock heads, too. I am under carbed with a 750.

It has about 10:1 compression, 1.7 roller rockers, 286 duration, 540 lift solid lifter cam.

I would suggest a weiand stealth (or similar) and about an 830cfm carb. Also go hydraulic cam (adjusting the solid lifters sucks azz). Electronic ignition (MSD or similar).

IMO: 500 rwhp will be difficult to reach in a N/A engine. But you never know.

 

[krash kendall]

wont a roller cam give me a VERY LOPEY idle? Oh and, the stock botton end and heads will be good for 500 WHP?

IN your opinion, what would it take for that motor to make 500 WHP, with just stock heads?

With a stock bottom end and heads and a cam that's baby-smooth at idle, I'd say it'd take a miracle. But, that's just me. You are talking about generating over one HP per cubic inch with 90% of the components stock - and for only $2500-$3500. The 500Hp figure isn't some arbitrary number that's easily achieved with some simple bolt-ons.

 

[tamadrummer88]

I always thought that ford underrated the big motors, especially the 428 and 429. I read somwhere that the 429 responds very well with small modifications.



Still, a motor that makes 370 HP, should easily make 500 HP, if the ratings are true.


John

 

[krash kendall]

Still, if it were that simple then every car or pick-up for sale with a 429 would be advertised as having 500Hp. And since you are talking about RWHP that means your motor will need to put out in excess of 625Hp at the crank.

 

[67GTA-FB429]

I am at 372rwhp on a chassis dyno and it cost 6500 to get there and a year of time.

 

[krash kendall]

Still, a motor that makes 370 HP, should easily make 500 HP, if the ratings are true.

John

That's a 74% increase in power. Getting an extra 5% can be difficult sometimes.

 

[tamadrummer88]

So, it would take a ton of work to make this motor, the powerful 429, just to make 500 RWHP? Well, i guess it's not easy.

Just another question: What does a 429 make stock at the wheels?

Also, someone said something about putting a 460 bottom end into the 429, to ger a little more power? I have a 460 complete over here in my house. Should I just go ahead and put in the 460? Whats the differences in the 460 and 429? What makes the 429 more powerful than the 460? I thought they were the same motors, just that the 429 is more flexible and built better?


John

 

[67GTA-FB429]

Talk to HHStang. he might have some good ideas for you.

But personally, I think that 500rwhp on $3k is far-fetched. I am struggling to get to 429rwhp (my goal of 1 for 1)

 

[tamadrummer88]

Why is it so hard to achieve a certain HP goal with old motors, than it is with new motors? Why is that?


John

 

[302 coupe]

Its not impossible, you just need the right combination of parts.

Also, you're putting too much trust in those factory hp numbers. Remember that was a gross rated number with a perfect tune. If Ford rated it at 365 back then, it would probably be rated around 320 with todays test standards. When you figure 320 hp at the fly, that ends up around 270 hp at the wheels. Its pretty easy to get a big block making some good power, but you're asking alot to gain 230 rwhp with such a limited budget. I think with some nicely ported heads, a bumpy solid roller cam, at least an 850 dp (maybe bigger), a good single plane intake, and an efficient exhaust, you could make an easy 525 or so at the flywheel, or say 440 at the wheels with a good tune. I think you'll need a set of aftermarket heads to get 500 to the wheels.

 

[C.Harris]

67GTA...figuring in a 20% loss through the drivetrain, your horsepower number equates to roughly 465 FWHP...not bad for a mild 429. However IMO you are not only under-carbed but undercammed as well, and I would guess with a good in-depth tune and some more part optomizing you have plenty of HP to tap in to. Don't give up.

68Eleclone...the 385 series BBF engines have huge potential....but not all 429/460 are the same. Your engine should be a great candidate for a fun and strong powerhouse. The '68 to '71 heads and blocks seem to be the ones that are sought after for budget build-ups such as yours. Now while I would doubt that you will see 500 RWHP on a $3K budget (and I am assuming an engine rebuild is considered in this figure), you can certainly set your sights on 450-500 FWHP with the powerplant you have - if you spend wisely, chose the right parts and the machine and headwork is done correctly. 450-500 FWHP is nothing to scoff at for a 429 on the budget and should provide plenty of streetable, tire-shredding power....not to mention the torque you'll have on demand.

And further down the road, if you are looking for more power for the buck you can always bolt on a 100-150 shot of nitrous. Most systems can be had for $500 or less.

 

[67GTA-FB429]

67GTA...figuring in a 20% loss through the drivetrain, your horsepower number equates to roughly 465 FWHP...not bad for a mild 429. However IMO you are not only under-carbed but undercammed as well, and I would guess with a good in-depth tune and some more part optomizing you have plenty of HP to tap in to. Don't give up.

It is not undercammed, trust me. 286 duration and 588 lift. I could probably upgrade to something else, but $$$. My issue last time I was at the dyno was stock intake and poor exhaust system, both have been upgraded. Ignition is where I am looking next. I will agree that 750 cfm is undercarbed though, it stuggles to shift at WOT @ 6700rpms. I did a lot of research and a 800 - 850 dp is the perfect size carb.

.... I think with some nicely ported heads, a bumpy solid roller cam, at least an 850 dp (maybe bigger), a good single plane intake, and an efficient exhaust, you could make an easy 525 or so at the flywheel, or say 440 at the wheels with a good tune. I think you'll need a set of aftermarket heads to get 500 to the wheels.

Don't want to go to big and swamp the motor, BB don't rev as quickly as a sb. Holley makes an 830 cfm that at 100% efficiency is an exact fit. Some aluminum SCJ heads would be a dream come true!!

With a BB you are making gobs of torque, you won't notice that the HP numbers are lower. 500HP that might be over 650ft-lbs...stuff breaks at those numbers. I have heard that the 385 series love nitrous though.