Just When You Thought It Was Safe...combo Thread

deathb4dismount · Jul 14, 2013

Ok since I have all supporting mods and upgraded fuel system setup on the car I started looking into some mild H/C/I combos. And having the cobra intake (yes i know it's not a real cobra) helps already too.

I know aluminums are far superior to GT40s and Ported E7s but I really want to keep cost down under $2000. Even used aluminums can be costly if they require valve job rockers etc.

I had these two ideas in mind and wanted some thoughts.

1.) http://www.americanmuscle.com/topend-engine-kit-8793.html

I know GT40X's aren't the best aluminum but at least they are going to take some weight off the car. I would stick with the Cobra intake and ditch the Typhoon and that would take another 250-300 off the price after I sell. I think this kit could realisticly make 260-280 RWHP and for approximately $1350 after I sell the intake, I think that is a good deal.

2.) Thumper head combo with E or TFS1 Cam

I think he wants $1100 for this. I like that they are all set up and people have made decent power and have had positive experience working with Thumper. Add in rockers for $200-$280 (I would go used on these), and all fasteners and gaskets about $150. I am thinking I could do this for about $1350-1500. I would think this could make 250-270 HP.

Am I way off on my HP estimates? Let me know what you guys think.

f8tlfiveo · Jul 14, 2013

Option 1 is a better buy in my opinion, you should hit 300rwhp with those heads easy. My bro has those heads ported with a junk e cam and explorer intake and hit 317rwhp

deathb4dismount · Jul 15, 2013

Anyone else care to share? Anyone still running thumper heads or have a similar combo?

cenok is family · Jul 16, 2013

i have thumper e7's with 1.94/1.6 valves, anderson n-412 cam, cobra intake, and all supporting mods. before the turbo and etc, i put down just under 270rwhp and 300rwtq. those numbers could have been a bit higher as well, with a better exhaust (mine was CRAP) and some tweaking (car ran very rich, 10.1:1 a/f). very fun street car.

now, i love my car and they way it runs, but if i was to do it again, i would have saved just a little more money and found some used trick flow's.

either option will be fun, but my advice is to save just a little more and get some good aluminum heads. if your budget is 2k, save up one more paycheck and drop for the better heads. just my opinion.

NIKwoaC · Jul 16, 2013

You want cheap and stupid fast? Twisted Wedge 170s, GT-40 style intake (Cobra), maybe with some porting on the lower, and stock cam. Have fun with that for a year or two, then throw a used Vortech at it and make enough power to split the block. There's a dude on here that used to post with basically that exact combo and his car was sick. Made ~450 to the tire, IIRC.

The thing I like about TWs, is that you can mill and port the hell out of them, and still get away with a lot of cam and still have valve clearance. Other companies out there make great heads, like Eddie and AFR, but my preference is T-Dubbs.

Please don't buy a letter cam.

deathb4dismount · Jul 18, 2013

NIKwoaC said:
You want cheap and stupid fast? Twisted Wedge 170s, GT-40 style intake (Cobra), maybe with some porting on the lower, and stock cam.

Hmmmm this is very interesting. I researched this a little and seems like TFS 170s with 1.7s and stock cam make silly low end power. And ith 3.73s which are going in next week this will make for a really fun street car. Plus after the fun wears off and I need more I can go blower later or get a custom grind from FTI to round out the combo.

I like where this is going. Anyone have a set of TFS 170s for sale?

LarsD · Jul 18, 2013

deathb4dismount said:
I like where this is going. Anyone have a set of TFS 170s for sale?

Summit has a sale on them every once in a while, I got mine for $1K.

clement · Jul 18, 2013

That gt40x combo from American muscle looks good for the price. you will probably be fine with stock pushrods, but I would check the length just to be sure. a VJ couldn't hurt on those heads.

as far as the TW heads, I love them but they like a specific valve/valve job to run to potential, and its not the same as an inline VJ. I would strongly recommend if you want a TW to buy from someone like total engine airflow and have a valve job done rather than a summit set, from TEA it will also have Ferrea 6000 valve in it. most heads on the market will need a VJ to run to potential. The only exception to this rule I have seen have been the RHS stuff. They are race ready castings OOTB. I don't know about their valve train since I bought mine bare and just put what I wanted on them.

Strype · Jul 18, 2013

Just my 2 cents since I just went through this...

The power isn't in the cam. Yes there are better cams than Alphabet cams. The power is in the heads. Spend your money on good heads, whatever you can afford is better than what you have. Then worry about the rest as you go. All in all depending on your setup you're gonna need -

Heads
Cam
Intake
24lb injectors
190lph fuel pump

It would help to have -

Roller lifters
Roller rockers
Pushrods
Shims
Cowl Hood - depending on if you use a phenolic spacer
Heavy Racing Wheels
Park Bench Wing
S&B Type R Ketchup Induction

But those aren't necessities unless your motor is high mileage, then I would do the pushrods at least and for sure the S&B Type R Ketchup Induction. My friend is running a great motor and getting about 275 rwhp out of a combo consisting of just reworked heads, edelbrock intake, and 24lb injectors with a b303.

Now if you go messing with smog and stuff like I did - You're making a 1 month project or less into a 4-5 year tangled mess. Leave everything as it is and don't take your A/C off like I did.

Good luck! It's fun when it's all done and people are walking up to you in the parking lot, or road workers are screaming at you to get on it, or the guys at Advance Auto parts want you to spin the tires.

EDIT: Okay good I see you have the cobra intake and a good fuel system. HEADS = POWER.

clement · Jul 18, 2013

Strype said:
Just my 2 cents since I just went through this...

The power isn't in the cam.

it isn't just in the cam. I agree that the heads are the main component, but you also have to have an induction setup that doesn't restrict the heads (and if you flow a head manifold together you will see how much it loses). there is a bunch of power to be had in having the correct valve events for the application. to say the power isn't in the cam is an incorrect statement.

Strype · Jul 18, 2013

clement said:
to say the power isn't in the cam is an incorrect statement.

Fast Forward >>
"is not"
"is to"
"yo momma"
"yo daddy"
"yo greasy grimy granny with the holes in her panties"
"yo whole generation"
"that means you too!"

It is a system, correct. The biggest component of which is the heads. Just my 2 cents, a larger cam is a larger cam - Pick up a cheap(ish - not too cheap) one. Spend monies on heads.

clement · Jul 18, 2013

Strype said:
It is a system, correct. The biggest component of which is the heads. Just my 2 cents, a larger cam is a larger cam - Pick up a cheap(ish - not too cheap) one. Spend monies on heads.

yes its a system. a 'larger cam' isn't a larger cam. for example a stock 87-93 HO cam is completely wrong if just put a carb on a stock efi longblock. and I am not talking simply about the duration and lift, im talking about the valve events. that is just one example. I will agree that if he only has the $ for one thing now the heads are what should be bought. however, to say that there is no power in the cam or that cams are all the same and to pick a cheap one is not good advise. target cross section of the heads over the cylinder displacement, airspeed, desired powerband, type of induction, compression ratio, fuel used, vehicle weight, gearing, converter, ect. all come into the equation when choosing a cam with the correct valve events and lobe area for the application.

Strype · Jul 18, 2013

clement said:
yes its a system. a 'larger cam' isn't a larger cam. for example a stock 87-93 HO cam is completely wrong if just put a carb on a stock efi longblock. and I am not talking simply about the duration and lift, im talking about the valve events. that is just one example. I will agree that if he only has the $ for one thing now the heads are what should be bought. however, to say that there is no power in the cam or that cams are all the same and to pick a cheap one is not good advise. target cross section of the heads over the cylinder displacement, airspeed, desired powerband, type of induction, compression ratio, fuel used, vehicle weight, gearing, converter, ect. all come into the equation when choosing a cam with the correct valve events and lobe area for the application.

ok

I just went with the old school and bought a b303. I like it a lot.

clement · Jul 18, 2013

ive done pleanty of letter cams with gt40 and twisted wedge heads on 302s back 15 years ago. some of them even went 11s on motor. most of the time the intake is the limitation if people are just installing stuff out of the box so you don't see a lot of difference in head/cam changes once you get to a certain point all motor. the cobra/gt40 intake are a prime example of needing work OOTB in order to utilize the hardware underneath them.

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