K&N Filter Effectiveness, from oil analysis

BlownFiveLiter · Oct 16, 2011

Gunmetal5oh said:
You're an idiot, I don't sell Amsoil nor do I buy most of their products.
That was an EXAMPLE of a dry filter that is actually effective at FILTERING.

K&N relies on the oil to catch dust and sand.
In fact, in every test I've ever read, and I've been around this stuff a while, every test shows K&N filters clog up more quickly than even a plain paper filter. So their claim that they filter better when clogged is not just silly, their filters suffocate your engine when they become dirty.

I have also reviewed independent tests, one from an engine builder I knew before his untimely passing, which showed in some cases a K&N filter actually flows less than a STOCK AIR FILTER. This is especially true in diesel trucks utilizing Donaldson filters, namely the Ford 6.0L, which has a high flowing paper filter called a "powercore" from the factory.

Some say K&N should only be used in racing.
I can see how that is logical if you rebuild often, however if it were me, I could not afford to tear down my engine as often so I would rely on more advanced filters.

Sorry to ruin your fantasy of a 20HP gain simply by spending 49.99 on a K&N.

The company, K&N has been SUED. They were sued for a list of reasons, but I can tell you for a fact if you call them they will NOW tell you their filters will not filter fine particles when their filters are used in sandy or dusty conditions.
Then they'll try to sell you a pre-filter for $40, it's made of polyester and slips over their filter to stop sand and dust. Don't listen to me if you doubt what I am saying, call them and THEY will tell you themselves because they don't want to get sued again.

If they were sued, you shouldn't have any issue with finding the judgements against them, to back up your claims. Ready? Go!

90lxcoupe · Oct 16, 2011

Gunmetal5oh said:
Sorry to ruin your fantasy of a 20HP gain simply by spending 49.99 on a K&N.

I dont see anywhere in this thread where anyone talked about horsepower.

Id love to read any of these articles you have, seriously, if i can learn something new thats cool, but you just saying this stuff is 2nd or even 3rd hand heresay and no links to studies actual results to back it up. Reading your posts it just looks like you want to bash K&N.

Gunmetal5oh · Oct 17, 2011

I just get a laugh from those who BELIEVE installing a K&N filter will somehow boost horsepower. That is the myth behind the filter, and people continue to buy their filters believing that.
On some engines that may be true, but it's true ONLY because the flow of the factory air intake is no longer adequate once an engines horsepower has been increased, or was never designed to be efficient. Truth is you're better off with a dry synthetic media, and you have your choice of manufacturers. I will leave that choice up to you, rather than be accused again of supporting a particular brand. I will say there was a really good company making OILED FOAM filters, called TruFlow, but they went out of business because people won't take the time to do research. Their filters worked very well and flowed better than K&N even after dirt was introduced. By the way, the polyester pre-filter that K&N requires for use in dusty environments.. will cut any minimal gain you might have seen.

Lifetime air filters remind me of lifetime oil filters. The re-usable stainless steel oil filters that are being pushed on people.
A quality filter, changed more often, is just plain better. But they've got the marketing hype figured out just like K&N does.
Filters and filtration is something people rarely give much attention, marketing hype and the opinions of people who haven't researched it often times perpetuate hype and false ideas that unfortunately influence others.
Believe it or not, often times the middle of the road filter will do a better job than the high dollar filter. If people were concerned about specs and performance data the aftermarket would be a different place.

Do your own research. Search for the lawsuits, search for the independent tests. Any test that starts off with "I've run K&N filters for 10 years" is PROBABLY a bogus test by the way. They've got people out there with an agenda who promote their products as independents.

HotFox · Oct 17, 2011

Looks like a good report from Blackstone. I think I am going to try them just ordered the test kit online; they look like they actually give you pretty good feed back on the analysis. The company I doubt with in the past really gives you no feed back on what the analysis means. I think that was a affective test with K&N, I run a knock off K&N from Summit but use no oil, with less then 1000 miles a year and never run in less then nice weather I think I will be fine…

Scott

4rdnut · Oct 17, 2011

The problem i had with a k&n filter when i had one on my 460 engine with an open element air cleaner was the sticky oil was being pulled down and clogging the idle air bleeds on the carb all the time and to keep the sticky oil from doing that i had to barely oil the filter to the point where i thought now the filter can't be filtering dust effectively, so you know the k&n oil will mess up the mass air sensor on computer cars, just not worth all the oiling, cleaning, re-oiling when you can buy a dry filter that requires no oiling mess. To each is own.

90lxcoupe · Oct 17, 2011

Gunmetal5oh said:
Do your own research. Search for the lawsuits, search for the independent tests. Any test that starts off with "I've run K&N filters for 10 years" is PROBABLY a bogus test by the way. They've got people out there with an agenda who promote their products as independents.

I just googled it, all i found were a few people on forums saying what you are saying without any factual evidence to back it up. What is different from your post and MFE's posts is that he actually has facts to back his claims up, and you have heresay.

Gunmetal5oh · Oct 17, 2011

I didn't see any filter test posted.

90lxcoupe · Oct 17, 2011

MFE92 said:

You didnt read the original post where blackstone said "If the filter had let any dust into the engine, that number would be going up, so we'd say it did its job"

Gunmetal5oh · Oct 17, 2011

Yes, if it makes its way to the oil, it will show up when analyzed.
There are a lot of surfaces for dust and dirt to stick to before it winds up in the oil.

MFE92 · Oct 17, 2011

Gunmetal5oh said:
Yes, if it makes its way to the oil, it will show up when analyzed.
There are a lot of surfaces for dust and dirt to stick to before it winds up in the oil.

Gunmetal5oh · Oct 18, 2011

State your experience, MFE.
All you've proved so far is that you're a goober who paid 20 bucks for an oil analysis and think that somehow proves K&N filter has been effective.

I bet you buy oil based on which one looks the purdiest too.
The fact that you act like an obnoxious tool rather than state your reasons shows you've got nothin but an oil analysis. The fact that you are looking for sand in your oil like a goober instead of running a good filter is already funny enough.

Run your K&N and have a nice life.

90lxcoupe · Oct 18, 2011

Where is all this evidence you said you had but then told me to find it for myself? I looked, and i found nothing. Im still would like to see what you were referencing, because if what your saying is true, maybe ill take the K&N off my car. Till then you just keep making yourself look dumber with each post and now you are moving onto personal attacks which makes you look pretty inteligent also.

What other studies could be done besides an oil analysis?

Gunmetal5oh · Oct 18, 2011

It would be an SAE rated test, if you want to get technical about how its conducted.
But, there are redneck methods, too.

Sometimes people cannot see their noses right in front of them. Don't accuse me to taking it negative, y'all wanted to get smart because I know it won't necessarily show in the oil even if dirt is passing.
Look at the air filtration setups on trophy trucks that race in desert environments, that will give you an idea of an effective setup.

One test you can do yourself for about .10 cents is take a clean, white rag, and wipe the inside of the air intake tube after running in a dusty environment. When the rag becomes dark tan, there is your indicator.

Then there is the well known issue of oiled gauze causing premature MAS failures. It won't happen over night, but it can reduce its service life by 50% or more depending on how crazy the person goes with the oil. And remember, without oil on the filter, ain't much protection from dust and dirt.

I am not advocating the use of any particular brand, I believe in people educating themselves and making their own decision. But I can say without a doubt, a dry synthetic filter is the best media type available, they are made by several different companies and I gain nothing by making the recommendation other than trying to help you.

N8Dogg98 · Oct 18, 2011

Gunmetal5oh · Oct 18, 2011

One test:
ISO 5011 Duramax Air Filter Test Report

Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt.

K&N will pass the most amount of dirt in the least amount of time.

MFE92 · Oct 18, 2011

Gunmetal5oh said:
State your experience, MFE.
All you've proved so far is that you're a goober who paid 20 bucks for an oil analysis and think that somehow proves K&N filter has been effective.

I bet you buy oil based on which one looks the purdiest too.
The fact that you act like an obnoxious tool rather than state your reasons shows you've got nothin but an oil analysis. The fact that you are looking for sand in your oil like a goober instead of running a good filter is already funny enough.

Run your K&N and have a nice life.

Wait...WHAT? You're making up theories about dirt-capturing gnomes hiding in engines so you can further inspire some superstition about how K&N's are death to engines, but I'm the obnoxious tool? That's rich!

And actually, I usually use Red Line engine oil for this car based on research I've done (check into that concept) about which one has the best high-temperature viscosity and the best HTHS, which is what I care about given how I use this car. BTW it's better than Amsoil, for those craven fools who worship at that altar.

srtthis · Oct 18, 2011

wow an AC delco filter (GM OEM) lead a test on a duramax (GM)

lets all throw our big open filters away and put motorcraft filters on....

****t hat i'll stick to my K&N and let my **** breath

1991notchbackLX · Oct 18, 2011

I can't believe I'm seeing real data on a forum. Who needs scientific evidence when you have anonymous, unsubstantiated internet conjecture? Please revert back to saying things like "EPIC FAIL" and "interwebz," or else I may go elsewhere for entertainment.

Gunmetal5oh · Oct 18, 2011

MFE92 said:
And actually, I usually use Red Line engine oil for this car based on research I've done (check into that concept) about which one has the best high-temperature viscosity and the best HTHS, which is what I care about given how I use this car. BTW it's better than Amsoil, for those craven fools who worship at that altar.

I would absolutely school you, what a silly.. angry little man you are. Oil is actually one of my specialties.
Redline is very good, but you pay through the nose for it. It is also mostly mail order, just like the Amsoil you keep bringing up. It was more to poke fun at you because you SEEM very susceptible to simply going along with everyone else. Sounds to me like you were molested by an Amsoil salesman at some point in your life, because you're way off bud.

Gunmetal5oh · Oct 18, 2011

srtthis said:
wow an AC delco filter (GM OEM) lead a test on a duramax (GM)

Put on your reading glasses.

The test was independently performed under controlled conditions using a $285,000 machine at Testand Corp of Rhode Island (manufacturer of the machine)

FILTER EFFICIENCY: K&N scored lowest, test done to ISO standards!!!

FILTER CAPACITY: K&N scored 8th out of 9th

K&N Filter Effectiveness, from oil analysis

BlownFiveLiter

have car, will race....wait, it doesn't run

90lxcoupe

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the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

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K&N Filter Effectiveness, from oil analysis

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