Kb 1.7

[2000BLKGT]

Well, first off I wasn't talking to you. My response was directed to the original poster, so feel free to step off of your soap box! I could care less what you spend your money on, or what kind of watch you wear. The bottom line is that twin screw blowers are the least efficient hot air pumps below 6psi. You can quote all of the so called experts you'd like.....It’s not a debatable matter, its simple thermodynamics! We all know that the KB's are a top notch blower, but the fact of the matter is, that for the measly 6psi either of you guys are running and the amount of heat they make at that level, you could have done just as well with a cheaper set up. Twin Screws mean meant to be spun hard. That’s what they were created for. I high-volume, positive displacement blower that could move more air on the top end as an alternative to the less efficient (at higher blower speeds) Roots type!

Keep on flapping your gums...the point of my post was to point out that you have no class. You didn't come into the thread to say congrats...you basically came in and told the guy he's doing it wrong and said he wasted his money.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Keep on flapping your gums...the point of my post was to point out that you have no class. You didn't come into the thread to say congrats...you basically came in and told the guy he's doing it wrong and said he wasted his money.

The only one doing any gum flapping here is you. I wasn't putting him down for his purchase.....as I matter of fact I commented twice now on how it was a great blower. I was simply explaining to him and others there who may not have been aware (like yourself obviously) where the KB's thrive and where they faulter. The point of your post is that you have no point. I wasn't speaking to you in the first place, so get some class of your own and butt out! Stupid Canadian!!!

 

[2000BLKGT]

The only one doing any gum flapping here is you. I wasn't putting him down for his purchase.....as I matter of fact I commented twice now on how it was a great blower. I was simply explaining to him and others there who may not have been aware (like yourself obviously) where the KB's thrive and where they faulter. The point of your post is that you have no point. I wasn't speaking to you in the first place, so get some class of your own and butt out! Stupid Canadian!!!

Go read your first post again bud. I didn't see where you said it was such a great blower...just pretty much what a waste of time it is to go with 6psi.

I've done my research, and I'm sure Cronin has too...people don't generally drop large on a set up without knowing the pros and cons.

But you choose a thread where the new owner is obviously happier than a pig in $hit...to come in a pi$$ on his parade. Which ultimately shows....you have no class.

Whether your post was directed at me or not...I run the same set-up...so I felt compelled to tell you as polite as I could to STFU.

 

[gtvertsoon]

Awesome purchase man! I wish I had the dough for a KB, but I'm just trying to get through the summer and pay my parents off for my new GT. Can't imagine what it would feel like to have that blower under the hood and hearing the whine when you get on it. You are one lucky SOB.

As for gearbanger, STHU if you don't have anything good to say about the topic. Why would KB make a 6 psi 1.7L that makes almost 400 hp if it was just an "inefficient heat pump" on the engine. From what I've seen, every KB is tried and true and I would give up a finger to have one. From what I see, you don't have a KB and have less HP than this guy does stock. Let him be because it seems like you just envy his purchase.

 

[lgndracer]

Why would KB make a 6 psi 1.7L that makes almost 400 hp if it was just an "inefficient heat pump" on the engine.

All the KB 1.7's are the same unit. The PSI is dictated by the pulley size, which spins the "screws" at a faster or slower speed, making either more or less pressure.

I didn't take gearbangers comments as a slam, more just pointing out the reasons why the KB excels at 9psi IC over 6psi non-ic. I know my 9 is not the best place to run either, but that was step one. Step two will be lower end, cams and 14psi pully, which is the KB's sweet spot. Hopefully over the winter.

Cronin, congradulations on your purchase. You will definitly be happy with the KB. Heck, if your not, you already know you are at the very beginning of it's capabilities, there are numorous 600RWHP+ cars running 1.7 KB's.

 

[cronin49]

Many people say "go with this...or go with that...my car's fine with it", but have only had it for 6 months or a year and have no idea what boost does to an engine that isn't built for it over time.

He's talking about longevity, so unless someone has been running a KB for 3-5 years or more, I'd save the "It's good...no problems" comments.

I remember people telling me all the time about why don't you run 20+lbs of boost on my eclipse (which actually has a motor built for boost). I've heard the "motor's great...it'll work...it can handle it", which is true for the most part, but not when you're talking longevity. You can ask any eclipse owner who has run high boost and chances are he's rebuilt his engine at least once or as done a few head/headgasket jobs over time.

Point is...everything breaks over time, but I think he'd rather stay at 6psi and get a little longer life out of his engine. 9psi may be fine and maybe still good a year from now, but eventually it'll wear a little faster than 6psi setup. Unless your car primarily is a track car, I'd lean a little more towards longevity that performance for that daily driver. It's not like 6 psi isn't gonna be fricken quick as hell anyways...

Your choice...your money...as long as you're happy who cares

Thank You for your input, I agree with KB, 9psi and I will toast the motor eventually.

 

[cronin49]

Kenne Bell comes with the supplied chip so you do not need a tune. If you decide to get a custom tune your warranty is void on the Kenne Bell. Don't waste a 1,000 bucks letting someone install it for you, it is an easy job and you will have the satisfaction of knowing everything was done the right way by you....just my opinion though...

Thanks man, maybe I will take a shot at it... I just have to learn to take my time and not try to rush things.

 

[cronin49]

shouldnt you be showing up z4's & 350z's w/ ur mods already? well if you arent...im sure that 6 psi is gonna leave them behind

Yeah when I want to, but most of the time I let them act like a - holes and pass me on the 2 lane roads I frequent, then I run up their asses big time. They look real nervous looking in their rearview mirrors.

 

[cronin49]

That's what I was thinking. If you are losing to those cars, then you need to learn how to drive.

Hey pal, I have been driving and racing for 35 years, I know how to drive. Maybe the fact that I'm 51 years old and don't need to prove anything has something to do with it. When I'm in the mood I will accept a challenge, most of the time I don't.
I got most of my jolly's out on the street years ago.

 

[cronin49]

That sucker was meant to scream at 9-14psi, not turn into a hot air pump at a measly 6psi. It's one thing if you plan on upgrading the internals later on, or can't afford to spring for the intercooler set up to run it at 9psi right away, but it's a big waste of money, time and not to mention the blowers potential to buy it to only run it at 6psi on purpose. You'd have been better off to go with an Allen or an FRPP if 6psi was all you were ever going to see. You would have made the same amount of power and it would have cost you far less.

Says who? I am not going to upgrade my internals, and a stock motor will not handle 14psi, not for long anyway. The rods, being powdered metal, would go. I think KB knows what they are talking about, I'll stick with them.

 

[cronin49]

The only one doing any gum flapping here is you. I wasn't putting him down for his purchase.....as I matter of fact I commented twice now on how it was a great blower. I was simply explaining to him and others there who may not have been aware (like yourself obviously) where the KB's thrive and where they faulter. The point of your post is that you have no point. I wasn't speaking to you in the first place, so get some class of your own and butt out! Stupid Canadian!!!

I'm aware thank you. KB makes boost even at low rpm, which is what I wanted, the other types don't, and I also like the idea of not having to tap into my oil pan. As I said before I won't be able to run it at the track, I wanted a street car that will run with just about anything and I think I will have this when I am finished with the install. Thank you to all you guys who acted respectfullly to me, it is much appreciated.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Why would KB make a 6 psi 1.7L that makes almost 400 hp if it was just an "inefficient heat pump" on the engine.

You obviously have no clue, please don't post if all you're going to do is be ignorant and belligerent. Most 9psi intercooled set ups are barely touching the 400rwhp mark. At 6psi on a stock car, most are seeing in the 310-325 range....which is on par with the other blowers I described.

For those who care to read and listen with an open mind, instead of bitch, I wasn't implying that the KB was junk below 6psi, just that it's the lease efficient of the bunch at that level. Cronin’s concern was for the longevity of his engine, not making the most power. Since he had no intentions of upgrading his stock internals, I merely pointed out the fact that he would have done just as well with a less expensive roots based set up. Everyone is so hell bent on KB this and KB that I though it would be refreshing to inject a different point of view every once and a while. The KB has it’s faults just like any other blower and this is it’s major one. But big deal….it’s a livable fault and people are willing to compromise, so who would I be to downplay the entire blower because of it. Just injecting an alternate opinion, that’s all. Don’t you clowns get your panties in a bunch.

Cronin, since I neglected to mention it earlier and since a few in this thread seem to have taken my alternate point of view as a negative…….congrats on your purchase, I’m sure you’ll have a blast with it.

 

[turboscrew]

Since he had no intentions of upgrading his stock internals, I merely pointed out the fact that he would have done just as well with a less expensive roots based set up.

This is exactly where I'm at on purchasing a supercharger. I was thinking about going with KB too but I would like to know what would be a less expensive roots type blower. Thinking about going with the KB 6psi kit or a Vortech non-intercooled setup but I'm open for opinions and suggestions. Something around 350-360 rwhp, no more no less.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

This is exactly where I'm at on purchasing a supercharger. I was thinking about going with KB too but I would like to know what would be a less expensive roots type blower. Thinking about going with the KB 6psi kit or a Vortech non-intercooled setup but I'm open for opinions and suggestions. Something around 350-360 rwhp, no more no less.

Well, if those are your horsepower goals, you may want to consider the Vortech over a non-intercooled positive displacement blower of any sort. Regardless of the type of positive displacement kit, you're not likely to see over 325rwhp without intercooling unless you've sprung for a fair host of bolt-ons (LT-headers, high-flow mid-pipe, cat back exhaust, throttle body, dyno tune, etc) which quite frankly is going to equal (or even surpass) the difference in cost of buying the KB intercooler right off the bat anyway. You should be able to see those numbers with 8psi or so and a non-intercooled centrifugal blower and since the discharge air isn't as hot and doesn't come on as sudden as it does with a PD blower, it's going to be easier on your engine internals as well. The drawback to it is, is that you're not going to get the low-end punch with the centi blower you would with a PD blower.

You’re kind of at a catch-22. On one hand, you’re not going to see those power levels (350-360rwhp) without adding bolt ons, or an intercooler/pulley to a PD blower which raises the cost of a base non-intercooled kit considerably, but on the other, you’re not going to get the low-end jam of the PD blower with the centi. You’ll save a lot of money with the centi kit, but you’re going to have to settle for a little lesser jam out of the hole (but still equally as fun) by going with it. Or, spend a fair bit more money and go with the PD blower. Gonna be a toss up.

 

[turboscrew]

Well I've already got the midpipe and catback to start with. I know I'll change plenum and tb before I get the charger. Do you think I'll be at 350 rwhp after those mods with the nonintercooled vortech at 8psi? On Vortech's website they showed where a stock GT will be at 374 hp. What kind of rwhp would that be?

I would love to have the KB kit but the Vortech seems to be the most popular. You can't go wrong with a kit that has alot of people in favor of them by mass numbers.

 

[2rjs]

Well I've already got the midpipe and catback to start with. I know I'll change plenum and tb before I get the charger. Do you think I'll be at 350 rwhp after those mods with the nonintercooled vortech at 8psi? On Vortech's website they showed where a stock GT will be at 374 hp. What kind of rwhp would that be?

I would love to have the KB kit but the Vortech seems to be the most popular. You can't go wrong with a kit that has alot of people in favor of them by mass numbers.

Check out my sig, you will be in good shape with the SQ.

 

[lgndracer]

I researched for about a year before I decided on a supercharger. Read just about everything there is on the net, talking to guys with them already, and numorous speed shops. I narrowed it down to the Mongoose Vortech kit if I wanted to stay in the mid 300RWHP range, or the 9lb KB if I wanted to be at the 400 mark. See sig for desicsion.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I would love to have the KB kit but the Vortech seems to be the most popular. You can't go wrong with a kit that has alot of people in favor of them by mass numbers.

Well, like I said earlier, they've both got their high and low points. They're both a high blower and are both equally popular amongst the masses. The centrifugals like the Vortech, Paxton, Procharger, etc have proven themselves a reliable, economical design for years now. The twin screw KB’s are still a relatively young blower by comparison. Even though they’ve definitely been making a name for themselves with GT owners over the last while since the 2V kits inception 2-years ago, I've found that the KB seems to be the more popular amongst the "dreamers" that don't even have a supercharged vehicle never mind a KB supercharged one and the amount of people who actually comment on them choose to base their remark on hype, rather than fact. There are far too many "KB good....all others bad" answers from people that really know nothing more about them other than what's trickled through the net, or what the sales brochure reads to take the majority of these comments seriously. You've really got to weed out the speculative remarks from those type of people one both sides of the line and base your decision on your projected goals and the money you've got to work with in order to reach them. As good as the KB’s are, they’re not made for the racer on a tight budget. Admittedly an awesome street blower, even their base non-intercooled kit is more expensive than a modest running comparable centrifugal design and in order to get it into the 400rwhp power range that most owners are smiling about, you’re going to get way over your head as far as cost goes, in a hurry. If you’re dead set on a Centrifugal, then you’re probably going to swing that way regardless of what arguments people on the opposite side present and the same goes for a Twin Screw or a Roots Blower. If you’re basing your decision around a particular over-all goal (how am I gonna do it, what’s it gonna cost, which blower will provide me with the best results?) , rather than around the power adder itself (what’s it gonna cost me to do it with a specific blower?), then your reasoning may be a little more optimistic.

IMO, If you’re working with a limited budget and are only seeking in the neighborhood of the 350rwhp range and are planning to stick with stock internals, then you’re best bet is to lean towards a centrifugal design running in the 8psi range. This along with your current bolt-ons will easily be enough to accomplish those goals. The nice thing about it, is that a model such as the S-Trim Vortech is stone reliable, cost efficient and easily upgradeable to make far more power if need be in the future when more money becomes available and still won’t break your bank.

Regardless of what everyone says on the subject, the decision is going to be yours, as is the burden of paying for the decision and living with the results. So just make sure you examine all of the alternatives before taking the plunge.

 

[2000BLKGT]

^^^^

What Gumbanger conveniently leaves out in his indepth bag of wind is the old adage: "you get what you pay for".

A couple of things to remember if your looking at the price of the KenneBell kit:

1) it comes with injectors
2) it comes with a new aluminum intake manifold

Not sure what kind of bucks 8 x 36-42# injectors cost...but add that to the bill on the centri....I'm sure it'll add up to quite a few more bucks.

The new aluminum intake is a very valuable part of the KB kit...so you get to ditch that plastic POS stocker that has a track record of inevitably breaking.

Try blowing a stock intake manifold with a centri set-up on a mild street car, and find an aftermarket replacement that will fill the need. Reichhart(sp)...no way...P51...ain't happening...both are pretty much race applications. So if/when that happens...you're stuck buying another plastic POS.

I priced out a polished Vortec 8psi non-cooled set-up at the same time I priced out my polished 6 psi KB...and at the end of the day, the difference out-of-pocket was minimal. (this included the price of install BTW)

While the KB may seem pricey at first...you get more value for your dollar....and pretty much everything is included in the kit besides spark plugs.

You get what you pay for!

 

[WillDuhhBeast]

So how simple is it to take the 6psi kit to 9psi when you're ready? What kinda cost or changes would you have to make?