KB vs centrifugal vs turbo

A boost controller can easily be made mechanical. I had one like that.

millhouse said:

There are plenty of guys running those b&g turbo kit's on their daily drivers with no issues whatsoever.

Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up, but i can't find anywhere where i said "everyone has had issues with b&g turbo kits" so keep reaching

millhouse said:

I'm not sure when jet-hot coating became a necessity rather than luxury....but the coating that they come with works just fine.

Click to expand...

again keep reaching cause i can't find were i said it was a "necessity".
one of the main i pick the HP kit i have was cause it was jet-hot coated, due to an experience another local stang owner had before i bought my kit. i won't mention the brand of kit, the car was not daily driven, and after a couple of months the car began to give him many issues. he later found out that the heat from the hot side had ruin wires in the engine bay. also in some areas the conectors on the harnesses were slight melted together. to make it short a list of problem that came from the hot side not being coated to reduce engine bay temps. but i'm sure that reducing heat as much as possible in the engine bay won't help the engine make more efficient power. i already know you'll tell me other wise

millhouse said:

I daily drove mine (I only have their headers) and they still are holding up great!

Click to expand...

That great i'll build you a monument, oh wait before i do tell me how to do it better and for less money

millhouse said:

As far as a boost controller goes....you can fab one up for less than $12 worth of parts from the hardware store that will push a stock longblock into splitting territory. This is all without having to upgrade any options. In other words, the kit as is is more than capable of pushing a stock longblock into splitting territory without any upgrades.

Click to expand...

wow you saved him so much money now he can do a twin turbo setup.

millhouse said:

As far as the injector, fuel pump, maf & tune goes I already mentioned the need to upgrade. It's still typically far cheaper to upgrade yourself however than to purchase with the kits....as there seem to be much better deals on those components. Again though...they too are needed for supercharger kits, as most dont include them.

Click to expand...

yeah like you said already, and pretty much common sense. but it still adds to the overall cost. i can't say it in any other way to make it any more simple.

millhouse said:

Still, find me a supercharger kit that comes with 42lb injectors & matching meter, intercooler & all associated hardware, headers etc. and I'll find you a comparably priced turbo kit.

Click to expand...

you still haven't found a complete turbo kit for under or at 3000. cause i have the kit with all of it (and not just the headers) and it wasn't 3000.

here i'll even look for you:

94-95 stage 2 singel turbo "tuner" kit from ponydown $3199.00
not even a complete kit, but with your home made boost controler it's only $3211.00
94-95 stage 2 mustang single turbo "tuner" kit [pdp9002] - $3,199.99 : Pony Down Performance, turbo mustang kits & parts


Cartech SN95 Outlaw Base MSRP: $4595 no boost control so with yours $4607
Cartech SN95 Street Sleeper Base MSRP: $3995 again no boost control so with yours $4007
The Turbo Forums.com

oh wait this one is close

Pro Turbo Kits 87-95 Mustang Street Kits Base MSRP: $2995 + Head unit and no boost controler, so with yours $3007
you would happen to know were i could make a head unit for $15.99?
The Turbo Forums.com

Thanks
Joe

donkey_punch said:

Thanks for clearing that up, but i can't find anywhere where i said "everyone has had issues with b&g turbo kits" so keep reaching




again keep reaching cause i can't find were i said it was a "necessity".
one of the main i pick the HP kit i have was cause it was jet-hot coated, due to an experience another local stang owner had before i bought my kit. i won't mention the brand of kit, the car was not daily driven, and after a couple of months the car began to give him many issues. he later found out that the heat from the hot side had ruin wires in the engine bay. also in some areas the conectors on the harnesses were slight melted together. to make it short a list of problem that came from the hot side not being coated to reduce engine bay temps. but i'm sure that reducing heat as much as possible in the engine bay won't help the engine make more efficient power. i already know you'll tell me other wise

Click to expand...

It’s simple….I inferred it by your previous comment “plus the hot side is not even jet-hot coated”. It’s possible I took it the wrong way, but the way it reads is that you are inferring jet-hot coating is a necessity.

I will agree, jet-hot coating (as well as most other ceramic coatings) can reduce underhood temps, it is not a necessity….and will not necessarily protect you from melting wires. A little common sense goes a long way…and if you see wires that are too close to the hotside, either move them, wrap them with some thermo tape or simply throw some header wrap on your hotside.

That great i'll build you a monument, oh wait before i do tell me how to do it better and for less money

Click to expand...

Now was this really necessary?

wow you saved him so much money now he can do a twin turbo setup.

Click to expand...

Again, you implied that a boost controller should come with every kit….and that it’s a necessity. I simply showed you that one can be had for next to nothing…so why pay extra for one in a kit?

yeah like you said already, and pretty much common sense. but it still adds to the overall cost. i can't say it in any other way to make it any more simple.

Click to expand...

Really, you never needed to….and am not sure why you commented. You simply agreed with me and then attempted to belittle me at the same time.

you still haven't found a complete turbo kit for under or at 3000. cause i have the kit with all of it (and not just the headers) and it wasn't 3000.

Click to expand...

Here is a complete turbo kit for the sn95 under $3000… B&G STAGE 1 94-95 [94-95 FULLKIT STAGE 1] - $2,950.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

And here is one for the foxbody for $ 2750… B&G STAGE 1 [79-93FULLKIT] - $2,750.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

Once again, during certain times of the year….both of those have had deep discounts where you could find them for MUCH cheaper than the current prices!

If you want the rest of the upgrades to support that turbo kit (injectors, maf, pump, tune etc) go buy them! Just because you paid top dollar for each of those items to be included in your kit does not mean the rest of us want to. Are all of those supercharger kit’s incomplete that don’t include fuel system upgrades and a tune?

here i'll even look for you:

94-95 stage 2 singel turbo "tuner" kit from ponydown $3199.00
not even a complete kit, but with your home made boost controler it's only $3211.00
94-95 stage 2 mustang single turbo "tuner" kit [pdp9002] - $3,199.99 : Pony Down Performance, turbo mustang kits & parts


Cartech SN95 Outlaw Base MSRP: $4595 no boost control so with yours $4607
Cartech SN95 Street Sleeper Base MSRP: $3995 again no boost control so with yours $4007
The Turbo Forums.com

oh wait this one is close

Pro Turbo Kits 87-95 Mustang Street Kits Base MSRP: $2995 + Head unit and no boost controler, so with yours $3007
you would happen to know were i could make a head unit for $15.99?
The Turbo Forums.com

Thanks
Joe

Click to expand...

Thanks for looking…but I have already shown you a kit that comes in under the $3000 mark. It may not come with a boost controller…but IMHO, it’s not something that everyone needs…thus it too is not a necessity.

Your whole response however has ignored one of the main topics of discussion….the cost of turbo kit’s v.s. the cost of a supercharger.

Ever feel like you've been punched by a donkey? lol!!

94mustangcobra said:

wow thanks for all the responses, i honestly had questions about the B&G kit so thanks for pointing out some of the other things that i forgot to look into. now when somebody is talking about a DIY kit, what kind of welder do you use and where do get the header pipes bent, and where do you buy your turbo parts. i understand about underhood heat as my friend who has just finished his 04 TT cobra has already melted two clutch cables, a power steering line and an oil line, and everything is header wrapped and his headers are ceramic coated. it's also a true daily driven street car that puts down 722 rwhp/622 rwtq on 93 octane, but he's had issues like relocating the oil filter with a mach 1 setup, hood clearance, timing cover, and melting stuff, along with getting 57mm turbos when he was told he should receive 60mm turbos, boost controller wasn't added. but the end result is that he's got the badest street car in town. thanks for the info again, i was leaning turbo before and i'm still going to lean turbo now just have to wait a little longer for it.

Click to expand...

Most DIY guys (myself included) seem to use a wire feed mig welder. It won’t lay down as nice of a bead as a tig will, but it’s more affordable….and to a certain extent…takes less skill. I myself picked up a HH180 and has no problem with any of the projects I’ve thrown at it. Alternately, you can pick up a little 120v machine that will get the job done just as well….you just won’t be able to weld the thick stuff (not applicable for your typical turbo setup anyways).

If your new to welding in general, I’d strongly suggest picking up a set of pre-fabbed header or using the stockers flipped upside down. It is such a high pressure/heat area and requires a great quality weld to hold up to the abuse. The rest of the tubing can be bought from the likes of summit racing. Just pick up a variety of U and J bends in the appropriate sizes…and make sure they are mandrel bent.

While underhood heat is far greater than stock with a turbo setup, there is no reason things should be melting. If things seem too close to the exhaust, they probably are. Zip ties are your friend…as is thermo shield, turbo blankets and header wrap (also used for your downpipe). Your typical 5.0 mustang is far less cluttered than a dohc cobra…so you shouldn’t have nearly the amount of heat issues as your friend.

to: 94mustangcobra, i would, say go turbo, hell i have one, but since

A. it's your daily driver, and

B. in your orginial post you said "what i am looking for is the most cost effective."

C. you already mentioned how your friend had his hands full with his.

i took that into consideration on posting my opinion(s) ( and we all know what is said about opinions) first doing a H/C/I and more nitrous to the 347 you already have. and then the option of supercharger for their ease of installation and IMO ( cause i don't want to belittle someone with facts) their cost is less compare to a turbo system. how much less if any can be debated the same amount just like debating opinions.

but i think one thing you also might want to tak into consideration is how much hassle you are willing to go through to get your daily driver back on the road. and a buget if you have one. cause which every road you take it's possible to hit your hp goal, but every road is different.

Good Luck no matter which one you decide on. and don't forget to keep us posted.

Thanks
Joe

i think in general that any turbo kit that you put, make sure the essential areas are protected first due to the build up heat thats generated by the turbo. cover any loose wires, spark wires, etc. 1 of my friends had that issues and it caused a fire.

donkey_punch said:

i took that into consideration on posting my opinion(s) ( and we all know what is said about opinions) first doing a H/C/I and more nitrous to the 347 you already have. and then the option of supercharger for their ease of installation and IMO ( cause i don't want to belittle someone with facts) their cost is less compare to a turbo system. how much less if any can be debated the same amount just like debating opinions.

Click to expand...

Again, was that really necessary?

Since you seem to skip around some of the cost differences, let’s compare an actual superchger to the turbo setup I listed.

Vortech 4FG218-020S - Vortech Centrifugal Supercharger Kits - summitracing.com

List price is ~ $2951 and it does not come with an intercooler or headers (neither one is a necessity…but both are extremely helpful for both power output and the use of pump gas)….and still requires you to purchase fuel injectors, maf sensor and a tune (were not getting into the debate of using an fmu).

This of course is comparing a supercharger that is going to be able (may need a pulley swap) to compete with the horsepower output of a turbo. It’s possible to get an A-trim for cheap…but it’s not even in the same league as a turbo as far as power capabilities are concerned. As such…generally speaking, the person shopping for an a-trim is not going be the person shopping for a turbo.

Am I missing something here, or are the price differences between comparable supercharger and turbo’s….well, comparable?

I will agree though, ease of install hands down goes to a supercharger.

is a insp.sticker gonna be a problem?


that turbo cant retain smog i believe?

I like how KB is now its own power adder. Its supposed to be Roots, Centrifugal, Turbo