Knock Sensor With Closed Loop Timing Retard !!!!!!!!!

YtnGT · May 13, 2005

Let me begin by saying that I really like lots of torque, so I added a NX kit to my little 281. I also like having a reliable engine! Some people don't think that power and reliability mix, but I think it is a great combination.

I would like to extract more power out of my current setup and keep it safe. I ran across the J&S safeguard product several years ago and thought it was a great product. http://www.jandssafeguard.com/tech.html Does anyone know if this product has been used on a 4.6 99+ engine. Are there any other manufacturs of a knock sensor system for the 4.6L engine?

hotmustang331 · May 13, 2005

The only way I know you can do it is A. buy a stand alone engine management system ($1800+) B. buy a mach or cobra aluminum block/engine W/ mach or cobra CPU and harness. Its pretty funny that the 03-04 cobras got S/Cd but they didnt have a knock retard LOL, they need it the most too. I think the aftermarket needs to step up and make a system that is a standalone and connects to an aftermarket ignition (MSD DIS for example) and completely bypasses the computer...would be nice.

RedGTvert · May 13, 2005

hotmustang331 said:
The only way I know you can do it is A. buy a stand alone engine management system ($1800+) B. buy a mach or cobra aluminum block/engine W/ mach or cobra CPU and harness. Its pretty funny that the 03-04 cobras got S/Cd but they didnt have a knock retard LOL, they need it the most too. I think the aftermarket needs to step up and make a system that is a standalone and connects to an aftermarket ignition (MSD DIS for example) and completely bypasses the computer...would be nice.

Dude, like LOL! 03/04 cobras don't need a knock sensor in stock configuration. With forged internals, low compression and a blower that is pushing only 8.5# of boost, really doesn't need it. You don't really hear of those engines going south until they either start overspinning the heaton or add a 2.2 KB or fuel startvation.

As far as an MSD, too many issues with COP.

YtnGT · May 16, 2005

RedGTvert said:
Dude, like LOL! 03/04 cobras don't need a knock sensor in stock configuration. With forged internals, low compression and a blower that is pushing only 8.5# of boost, really doesn't need it. You don't really hear of those engines going south until they either start overspinning the heaton or add a 2.2 KB or fuel startvation.

As far as an MSD, too many issues with COP.

I don't have an 03/04 cobra engine so detonation is really bad. Also I would like to altogether avoid detonation, therefore closed loop knock\timing control. The product looks reall neat but only has 3 or 4 outputs so it would not work on 99+ cars. I am suprised that someone else does not make a similar product.

John at J&S · Sep 16, 2005

We are working on an eight coil version.

We have one for the two coil Focus and the early four coil 4.6's.

Here's the install diagram and text for the two coil Focus unit:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/FocusInstall.html

photo of four coil unit:

Red35th · Sep 16, 2005

Honestly if you are running a 150 shot or more then I don't think that a knock sensor will help you. At that level of power the stock ring lands/rods will just snap with even a hint of preignition. A knock sensor can only pull timing after it hears detonation, and with 400+ rwhp that might be too late.

Also I think you meant "open loop." Close loop is part throttle. If you are spraying at part throttle ALOT of things must have gone wrong...

I assume that you have your wideband set up where it kills the system if your a/f gets over ~12.5 right? I'm pretty sure that the Dynojet has that capability, I know our LM-1 does anyhow.

YellowJacketGT · Sep 16, 2005

RedGTvert said:
Dude, like LOL! 03/04 cobras don't need a knock sensor in stock configuration. With forged internals, low compression and a blower that is pushing only 8.5# of boost, really doesn't need it. You don't really hear of those engines going south until they either start overspinning the heaton or add a 2.2 KB or fuel startvation.

As far as an MSD, too many issues with COP.

It is my understanding the Knock retard was removed from the 03/04 Cobra's because of inability to distinguish detonaion from noise generated by the supercharger.

I have a knock sensor. I can see how difficult it would be. For example first thing in the morning the sensor lights up like a christmas tree with no apparent sign of detonation.

I have yet to hear any detonation when the knck sensor lights up red. I do understand there could be some intemitent detonation that I don't sctually hear.
Spark plugs show no signs.. Even on the dyno there was no exhaust indication.

I would guess it would be tough to adopt a knock retard to a built engine with a supercharger.

forpit2000gt · Sep 16, 2005

do you have detonation now while spraying?
suggest getting a dyno tune, run 2 steps colder plugs if really worried. You can't really have what you are asking for, technically. I want the power of a power added but no more risk of problems than NA with safe tune. It looks like you have all the things to be as safe as possible. Dyno tune is the only thing I didn't see.

John at J&S · Feb 3, 2007

Progress on the COP knock controller:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/8ChannelVampire/J&S_Vampire_Brochure.html

Knock Sensor With Closed Loop Timing Retard !!!!!!!!!

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