Longtubes vs Shorty headers

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

*Posting this here too since I know some of you don't visit 5.0tech*

Does anyone have any proof as to what kinda power longtubes are worth over shortys on say a 400hp street car? I'm not talking about the expensive custom race headers, i'm talking (for example) a mac shorty header vs a mac longtube. I'm looking for dyno and track numbers. Reason I'm asking also is because I have a mcleod sfi bell and the fit is tight with longtubes so in the event down the road I ever have to drop the trans, its gonna be a nightmare. So, i'm wondering if its worth the hassle to do 1 3/4" longtubes or just use 1 3/4" shortys? I KNOW longtubes are overall better for power, i'm just wondring if its worth the hassle if I keep my sfi bellhousing and don't sell it. Also looking for examples of gains on a car like mine, not a stock 14 second 302.

Mike

96darkhorse · May 31, 2005

well the first time i went to the dyno, i had Mac Lts, Mac o/r H, borla catback, cai

i dynoed 225/292

a 94gt was dynoed before me and he had shorties, o/r h, flow catback, cai, bumped timing....he dynoed 210/280....his car and mine are both manual

with your stout combo, the difference between the two are only gonna get bigger....go with the LT's if you can

94GTLaserRC · May 31, 2005

I dont have numbers, but ANY 1-3/4 over the 1-5/8 with your setup is going to be an improvement. I think YOU'RE the only that can decide if it's worth the labor. (Also want to see if anyone else replies.)

RC

nmcgrawj · May 31, 2005

George Klass told me that its worth 20-30hp i believe if i recall right. He's on hardcore, give him a PM and see what he says.

5spd GT · May 31, 2005

96darkhorse said:
well the first time i went to the dyno, i had Mac Lts, Mac o/r H, borla catback, cai

i dynoed 225/292

a 94gt was dynoed before me and he had shorties, o/r h, flow catback, cai, bumped timing....he dynoed 210/280....his car and mine are both manual

with your stout combo, the difference between the two are only gonna get bigger....go with the LT's if you can

Not doubting your gains here...but there are many more factors to consider when those numbers are acheived on two different cars? State of tune and level of "abuse" it has had...

Grn92Lx - If I can ever get lucky enough to get a better paying job...I will be going with longtubes...if that tells you anything But it isn't worth the money hassle right now for the small gains I would see in comparison. You know what I'm trying to say...

mootang · May 31, 2005

NEGATIVE. I havent been back to the dyno since the swap. if you would like to send me $60 I would be glad to pm you the results.

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

Well, putting the longtubes in is no problem at all. Me and my friend can do that with our eyes closed The problem is down the road with the mcleod SFI bell (if I keep it) trying to drop the tranny and bell will be a nightmare with longtubes. Now running shortys and a prochamber will make life easier BUT lose power. OR I can sell my sfi bell to my friend like we planned and run longtubes and make more power but hope that at 6600 rpm my flywheel doesn't decide to break loose

yellow1995Cobra · May 31, 2005

Its gonna be hard to find dyno numbers on 1-3/4 shorties vs long tubes. Those size shorties are rare.

Every dyno run ive seen in mags and books has the longtubes way out ahead of the shorties, but i think you know that already.

96darkhorse · May 31, 2005

5spd GT said:
Not doubting your gains here...but there are many more factors to consider when those numbers are acheived on two different cars? State of tune and level of "abuse" it has had...

Grn92Lx - If I can ever get lucky enough to get a better paying job...I will be going with longtubes...if that tells you anything But it isn't worth the money hassle right now for the small gains I would see in comparison. You know what I'm trying to say...

i understand what your saying and totally agree on it
but the reason i stated this example is bcus both cars on dyno had less than 40k miles and the owner of the car was the original owner and he said he had babied his car.......its been proven that LTs will make more power than shorties,but now the question is, do you want to maintain legality or do you wanna spend more money and not pass smog (depending on where you live)? its up to you

zenboy99 · May 31, 2005

I'll post this here too. I'll have dyno results this weekend or next weekend.

Old combo: Flowmasters, FMS shorty headers, MAC off-road H-pipe.

New Combo: Magnaflows, BBK Long tubes, Pypes X-pipe.

broken_joke · May 31, 2005

here is an option to think about. go to anderson ford motorsport and look at the big tube shorty's they are selling made by bassani.

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

Yeah, those are the shortys i'd get if I decide to use shortys. Kinda steep though @ $450.

Tough decision. Do I want more power and more aggrivation down the road if I ever have to pull my tranny/bellhousing or less power and less aggrivation?

Zen, i'm interested in hearing your results. You basically are making the same swap I did 2 years ago when I had my 302 combo. I went from FMS shortys/mac offroad H to bbk ceramic LT's and bbk offroad H. I felt a low end gain, but nothing earth shattering.

bimmertech · May 31, 2005

may 04 5.0 mustang mag on a 347 with z heads and a edel intake
1 5/8 unequal shorties 418tq @ 4900, 410hp @ 5400
1 5/8 equal shorties 419ttq @ 4200, 406hp @ 5400
1 5/8 lt's 416tq @ 4100, 404hp @ 5400
1 3/4 lt's 417tq @ 4100, 408hp @ 5400
what these numbers don't show is the lower end on the lt's is far superior and the avg num would be a drastic diff. they also put some hooker headers(all these are bbk) on and made 25hp more than anything.

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

Any chance you could post a link to the article or post the article? Thanks.

bimmertech · May 31, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Any chance you could post a link to the article or post the article? Thanks.

i don't have a scanner, but maybe you could get on thier website and look it up. article is called the long and short of it. i'm woking on the avg cuz you got me curious, will post it as soon as i'm done.

bimmertech · May 31, 2005

alright heres the avg in tq then hp.
1 5/8 unequal shortie 395,326
1 5/8 equal shortie 397,327
1 5/8 lt 401,329
1 3/4 lt 401,330

Joes95GT · May 31, 2005

Peak power doesn't do much for me....kinda like seeing a girl with a nice face but with her clothes on - you still don't get the whole story.

Mikey - stop being lazy.

If you do it right, which I know you will (), there should be no reason why you're pulling the bellhousing any more than every 30k miles. For the hassle that will only be gone through every few years, I think it would be worth it.

Maybe something to compare is the differences between 1 5/8" shorties versus 1 5/8" longtubes on a 302 with ~260-280 horsepower. I'd imagine that the shapes of the curves would be similar if you were to compare a 1 3/4" primary header on your 347.

Joe

zenboy99 · May 31, 2005

bimmertech said:
alright heres the avg in tq then hp.
1 5/8 unequal shortie 395,326
1 5/8 equal shortie 397,327
1 5/8 lt 401,329
1 3/4 lt 401,330

Thats alot lower then I thought, you've dampered my motivation for this weekend.

The 5.0L Dyno book I have showed larger gains with LT's then the numbers posted above. I suppose every combo's different. I'm moving in two weeks and have that book packed up. Maybe someone else could post the numbers from that book?

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

I hear ya loud and clean mang. Theres no question in my mind i'm giving up power. Just wondering how much? I was born w/o any kind of patience so I figured if I go shorty headers, i'll save myself lots of aggrivation when the time comes. So, when I have to pull my bellhousing out, your gonna help, right friend?

Bimmer- thanks for the info! Thats weird how the averages are all about the same. But as we all know, magazine land and real world and different.

Joe, off topic, but post your facts in this thread about aluminum flywheels. It won't be long before its filled with internet myths http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=550628

bimmertech · May 31, 2005

thanks for the info! Thats weird how the averages are all about the same. But as we all know, magazine land and real world and different.

amen brother!!

Longtubes vs Shorty headers

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