looking for new intake & soliciting recommendations

[jerry S]

I have a Torker II. From what I hear, it is crap, which might explain my unsatisfactory dyno numbers. I have been recommended to swap it out for a RPM Air Gap. Can anybody with experience opine on this:

Here is my build

1969 351W bored .060 over
forged eagle rods
forged Wiseco flat top pistons @ 11:1 CR
Edelbrock RPM Performer cylinder heads 60cc combustion chamber and 190 cc intake valve
Edelbrok Torker II single plane intake (makes its peak hp between 2500-6500 rpm) Holley 650 cfm 4 bbl carb (double pumper with vac secondaries)
stock 80 gph fuel pump
MSD 6AL ignition and HEI pro billet distrib
C6 transmission with 2200 stall converter and a trac loc

Here is my cam grind:

ADV DUR: INT 297, EXH 308
LIFT: INT 538, EXH 534
DURATION AT .50 DEGREES: INT 236, EXH 242 @ 108 centerline

dyno numbers are attached. I am at least 50 rwhp from where I should be.

In additon to the new intake, I am also thinking about bumping up to a 750 carb. A holley blue fuel pump arrives Tuesday. Please feel free to comment or make constructive suggestions.

 

[FasterThenU72]

first things first, get a dual plane intake, not a single.....and seeing as how you have performer heads, get the performer intake to match perfectly...that's whatd i do, the air gap in my eyes is pretty good, but there are plenty of people that would say its a waste of money, why...i dont know...i think its pretty damn good.....

 

[mustangdave]

I second the Air Gap nomination. One of the best out there for the street and should do wonders on your setup. It performs very close to the single plane Victor Jr. at high r.p.m. without giving up power on the bottom.

 

[jerry S]

first things first, get a dual plane intake, not a single.....and seeing as how you have performer heads, get the performer intake to match perfectly...that's whatd i do, the air gap in my eyes is pretty good, but there are plenty of people that would say its a waste of money, why...i dont know...i think its pretty damn good.....

The air gap is only $40 more, which isn't that much in the greater scheme of things. MY only concern is fitment. The torker II JUST fits under my hood. Will the air gap be taller?

 

[FasterThenU72]

well unless im wrong i thought the old F4B, which i have, was the same height or damn near close to being the same as the air gap, all i know is that mine is "twisted", i guess would be the word to use, more than the new air gap which gives it that much more of a torque and hp rating....and you have have a small block just like me so i figure it should work.....unless some one can elaborate a tad bit more on my idea....

Not to mention if all else fails, get a shorter filter....

 

[Jonstantine]

i cant really tell for sure, but you're graph has a funky shape on the top end
was your a/f ratio good?

i would almost bet money your problem is the STOCK FUEL PUMP
as far as the torker 2 being crap, id say its very combination sensitive - with most people not having the right combination

from what i understand, i would first upgrade the fuel pump and then if you're still unhappy id get a performer RPM intake (possibly air gap if it fits and you have a decent way to get fresh air in your engine bay)

 

[brianj5600]

I think you will still have at least 2 problems. First, the way tq and hp look at around 5k, there is something wrong. Hp flatlines and tq just disappears, not a "normal" looking graph past 5k. A/F ratio in that range would help diagnosis. I don't think an intake change will cure that. Second, I've heard that a C6 can gobble up a substancial amount of power, up to 40 more hp than a C4. That sounds extreme to me, but they are known for lack of efficiency. Those 2 things will get you more in the ballpark of what you looking for.

 

[jerry S]

i cant really tell for sure, but you're graph has a funky shape on the top end
was your a/f ratio good?

i would almost bet money your problem is the STOCK FUEL PUMP
as far as the torker 2 being crap, id say its very combination sensitive - with most people not having the right combination

from what i understand, i would first upgrade the fuel pump and then if you're still unhappy id get a performer RPM intake (possibly air gap if it fits and you have a decent way to get fresh air in your engine bay)

I don't know what the A/F ratio is . I was going to stop by on Friday and get that plus the total timing but the shop was closed. I was planning on adding a shot of NOS once I get my tune down. In anticipation of this, I just ordered a Holley Blue, so we will see if that cures things. As for getting fresh air to the engine bay, I am going to "open" the hood and make my hood scoop functional.

I think you will still have at least 2 problems. First, the way tq and hp look at around 5k, there is something wrong. Hp flatlines and tq just disappears, not a "normal" looking graph past 5k. A/F ratio in that range would help diagnosis.

I am going to ask about that tomorrow. What should the numbers be? the shop told me they thought the problem was in the carb. Maybe the secondaries are not opening up at WOT. I will find out if they think they have found it. First thing is the new fuel pump and ascertaining the total timing and A/F. IF after that I still don't see good numbers, I will ask them to throw a 750 cfm carb on there and see what happens. Then, I will prolly
just get the airgap anyway. I would expect to see better low end performance with it.

thanks everyone.

 

[fvike]

MY only concern is fitment. The torker II JUST fits under my hood. Will the air gap be taller?

I installed the Air-Gap this winter. I use an 2" filter with the K&N X-treme filter top. It all fit's under the hood, but the bolts from the hood scoop have left some nasty marks in the chrome of my X-treme top lid. So I had to grind them down. Other than that, no problems, but (as you know) I did cut a hole in the hood under the scoop, and the X-treme top wouldn't have fitted without it, as it is a bit higher than an ordinary chrome top lid.

Edit: Two pictures.

Preformance wise, I can't tell you much yet, (I changed from an Preformer manifold) as I've got some trouble with my carb. I think it's not opening the secondaries. I got an vacum issue somewhere....

 

[jerry S]

I installed the Air-Gap this winter. I use an 2" filter with the K&N X-treme filter top.
Preformance wise, I can't tell you much yet, (I changed from an Preformer manifold) as I've got some trouble with my carb. I think it's not opening the secondaries. I got an vacum issue somewhere....

Frode:

it is funny that you and I seem to have built identical cars. What carb are you running? A lot of guys tell me to get a 750 but tech at BGrant and Holley both say no, that my 650 is fine. Also, the dyno shop suspects that my secondary problem is vacuum related too. I will ask to see if they measured how much I have.

JS

 

[fvike]

Yeah, it's kinda funny. I have a Edelbrock 750 cfm. (1411) I've been thinking about either a 750 or 650 Speed Demon with vacuum secondaries. I think it's better for my engine than the e'brock that is calibrated from factory for big-block fuel economy.

 

[pabear89]

Well I like my AirGap manifold for the raise in the seat of your pants feelings.
It performs well in all rpm ranges easier hot starts and good top end.
And lower end tork has improved on a 2900lb car.

I know Flame away.....its the knockoff of Edlebrocks......
When you have no budget..........Ya gotta do what ya Gotta do.


PB

 

[D.Hearne]

I have a Torker II. From what I hear, it is crap, which might explain my unsatisfactory dyno numbers. I have been recommended to swap it out for a RPM Air Gap. Can anybody with experience opine on this:

Here is my build

1969 351W bored .060 over
forged eagle rods
forged Wiseco flat top pistons @ 11:1 CR
Edelbrock RPM Performer cylinder heads 60cc combustion chamber and 190 cc intake valve
Edelbrok Torker II single plane intake (makes its peak hp between 2500-6500 rpm) Holley 650 cfm 4 bbl carb (double pumper with vac secondaries)
stock 80 gph fuel pump
MSD 6AL ignition and HEI pro billet distrib
C6 transmission with 2200 stall converter and a trac loc

Here is my cam grind:

ADV DUR: INT 297, EXH 308
LIFT: INT 538, EXH 534
DURATION AT .50 DEGREES: INT 236, EXH 242 @ 108 centerline

dyno numbers are attached. I am at least 50 rwhp from where I should be.

In additon to the new intake, I am also thinking about bumping up to a 750 carb. A holley blue fuel pump arrives Tuesday. Please feel free to comment or make constructive suggestions.

Ok, first things first--------- there's no such thing as a Holley 650 "double pumper" with vacuum secondaries. Which do you have? Vacuum secondaries or mechanical? Probably mechanical since you say its a 650. As far as I know Holley only has one model ( list #) 650 vacuum sec. 4 bbl carb, so I'm assuming youve got a list #4777 650 DP carb. ------------------------Second, that 80 gal/hr fuel pump is PLENTY, more than enough for a carbed motor. Hell I run a 30 gal/hr one on my 331 stroker motor with THREE carbs and its never starved for fuel.----------------------------------------------Third, in my opinion your 650 is a little small for your combo, I'd have gone with a list #3310 750 carb ( vacuum secondaries) then tune it to your motor ( play with secondary springs and a larger 50 cc accellerator pump for starters) then jetting.------------------------------------------------------Fourth, never having used a Torker II, I can't honestly say anything about it, other than I'd would prefer using a Performer RPM over one, or one of Ford's own C9OX intakes. These are hard to come by but are good ones and aren't cheap, in most cases.

 

[jerry S]

Ok, first things first--------- there's no such thing as a Holley 650 "double pumper" with vacuum secondaries. Which do you have? Vacuum secondaries or mechanical? Probably mechanical since you say its a 650. As far as I know Holley only has one model ( list #) 650 vacuum sec. 4 bbl carb, so I'm assuming youve got a list #4777 650 DP carb. ------------------------.

I am afraid to overcarb, that's all. Holley does sell the same model as the carb I have in a 700 cfm. I will have the shop try a run with a 750 on there. As for the dbl pumper/vac. secondary, I was going by Holley's own description of the carb, as reprinted by summit (which others now inform me is a generic description and incorrect):

Also, if you look at this link showing an exploded view of a Holley Carb (not mine, however, it shows vacuum secondaries and an accelerator pump)

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/f4165-75.html
spacer

Here is the carb I have
HLY-0-80783C

$339.95
Estimated Ship Date: Today
Overview
Brand: Holley
Product Line: Holley Model 4150 Carburetors
Number of Barrels: 4
Carburetor Flange: Square bore
Choke: Electric
Fuel: Gasoline
Secondary Type: Vacuum
New or Remanufactured: New
Fuel Inlet: Dual
CFM: 650
Carburetor Finish: Dichromate
Ford Kickdown: No
Throttle Linkage Type: Universal
Quantity: Sold individually.

The famous Holley double-pumper.

Carburetor, Model 4150, 650 CFM, Square Bore, 4-Barrel, Electric Choke, Dual Inlet, Dichromate, Each

Holley's Model 4150 four-barrel carburetors are available in a variety of configurations for street, strip, and track performance. Holley uses their proven double-pumper design to make sure you have all of the fuel you need to keep your engine running its best. Plus, with power-valve blowout protection, a 100 percent wet-flow test, and your choice of mechanical or vacuum secondaries, these carbs set a standard for performance and reliability that's hard to beat.
Back to Search Results

 

[D.Hearne]

Thats a vac secondary carb, not a double pumper. All double pumpers are mech secondary carbs with two accellerator pumps ( hence the double pumper) Yours is a "dual" line/feed carb though, which are misinterpreted to be double pumpers many times. As for over carbing, that's not possible with a vac. sec. carb, if you tune it right, playing with different sec. springs. The motor will only pull the secondaries open as far as it needs them, once you get the right spring in there.

 

[jerry S]

Thats a vac secondary carb, not a double pumper. All double pumpers are mech secondary carbs with two accellerator pumps ( hence the double pumper) Yours is a "dual" line/feed carb though, which are misinterpreted to be double pumpers many times. As for over carbing, that's not possible with a vac. sec. carb, if you tune it right, playing with different sec. springs. The motor will only pull the secondaries open as far as it needs them, once you get the right spring in there.

Thanks for the clarification. I blame Summit for my ignorance. I can still send the 650 back in part because it has been giving my trouble from day 1. Needles keep getting stuck. I will have the shop bolt on a 750 and run a dyno for comparison purposes and see it that doesn't improve things.

 

[D.Hearne]

If it keeps flooding, sounds like too much fuel pressure,or the floats aren't set right, that's not the carb's fault. You need a fuel pressure regulator in between the pump and carb. If you don't, any other carb you put on there will do the same thing.