MAF?

89drop · Nov 27, 2010

I was wondering if anyone has ever used mass air sensor from a cougar with a 4.6, i picked one up for a few bucks today while talking to a guy that was picking apart a mustang next to it and mentioned to me that it was the same one that he used in his, and it was identical to a cobra... im not super worried about it if it doesnt work, just curious if he was full of BS or if i got a good deal, and if it will even work for my car, i know the ID is much larger then mine, but i also have a 75mm TB and the MAF was my bottleneck...

93GTStang · Nov 27, 2010

75mm TB is pretty big what mods do you have? It's probably the 70mm thats the same as the 93 Cobra. It "will" work but is not optimal. I used one for years on my 93 GT and it worked fine but some others have had issues.

jrichker · Nov 27, 2010

The only other MAF that is a one for one swap for a 93 and earlier 5.0 Mustang is the 94-95 Mustang MAF.

The MAF body and sensor are designed to match each other. Therefore you can't swap sensors between different part number MAF bodies and maintain proper calibration. The assembly is designed to match the computer’s internal program, and swapping a different MAF can upset the computer's calibration. In other words, your monster MAF probably won't match the calibration of your 5.0 Mustang computer.

94-95 Mustang GT MAF - $40-$100. It is 70 MM instead of the stock 55 MM on regular stangs built prior to 94. It uses a slip on duct on the side that goes to the throttle body and a 4 bolt flange on the other. You need a flange adapter to fit the stock slip on air ducting that goes to the air box. Wiring plugs right in with no changes. *1 *2

*1.) Metal flange adapter Kurtz Kustomz Motorsports, Inc. KKM Buy the TR70 for $44.95. Or spend some time on eBay looking for one that may fit.
Try AutoZone and ask for 81413 - Spectre / 3 in. Aluminum Intake Mass Air Flow Sensor Adapter at $12.00. You may have to order it online.

*2.) MAF & sensor interchange
The 94-95 Mustang 5.0 MAF & sensor is also found on:
1995-94 Mustang 3.8L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Crown Victoria 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1995-94 Mustang, Mustang Cobra 5.0L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Town Car 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Grand Marquis 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
Evidently the –A1A, -A2A, AA, etc. on the end of the part number is a minor variant that did not change the operating specs. You should be able to ignore it and have everything work good.

89drop · Nov 27, 2010

93GTStang said:
75mm TB is pretty big what mods do you have? It's probably the 70mm thats the same as the 93 Cobra. It "will" work but is not optimal. I used one for years on my 93 GT and it worked fine but some others have had issues.

sorry, i ment 70...im working on it now, it has basic bolt ons nothing major yet. so far i have the 70 mm tb, intake (typhoon) dual electric fans, CAI shorty headers, or H pipe, and flowmasters...

89drop · Nov 27, 2010

jrichker said:
The only other MAF that is a one for one swap for a 93 and earlier 5.0 Mustang is the 94-95 Mustang MAF.

The MAF body and sensor are designed to match each other. Therefore you can't swap sensors between different part number MAF bodies and maintain proper calibration. The assembly is designed to match the computer’s internal program, and swapping a different MAF can upset the computer's calibration. In other words, your monster MAF probably won't match the calibration of your 5.0 Mustang computer.

94-95 Mustang GT MAF - $40-$100. It is 70 MM instead of the stock 55 MM on regular stangs built prior to 94. It uses a slip on duct on the side that goes to the throttle body and a 4 bolt flange on the other. You need a flange adapter to fit the stock slip on air ducting that goes to the air box. Wiring plugs right in with no changes. *1 *2

*1.) Metal flange adapter Kurtz Kustomz Motorsports, Inc. KKM Buy the TR70 for $44.95. Or spend some time on eBay looking for one that may fit.
Try AutoZone and ask for 81413 - Spectre / 3 in. Aluminum Intake Mass Air Flow Sensor Adapter at $12.00. You may have to order it online.

*2.) MAF & sensor interchange
The 94-95 Mustang 5.0 MAF & sensor is also found on:
1995-94 Mustang 3.8L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Crown Victoria 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1995-94 Mustang, Mustang Cobra 5.0L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Town Car 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Grand Marquis 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
Evidently the –A1A, -A2A, AA, etc. on the end of the part number is a minor variant that did not change the operating specs. You should be able to ignore it and have everything work good.

thanks for the info, i knew i should have turned to you guys first! thats what i get for talking to some guy at the junkyard and not doing a little reserch first! oh well

93GTStang · Nov 27, 2010

It was along time ago, but I am not sure if at the time I used my stock electronics in the 70mm 93 Cobra housing or what. I'll have to go look through all my old pics it was 8yrs ago. I do know it worked fine, no issues at all. I ran it NA and with the SC, in my 93 GT.

The MAF transfer function for the 94/95 70mm is closer to the stock 55mm than the 93 Cobra MAF thats a definite as I have Diablo CMR tuning software and BE/EA.

93GTStang · Nov 27, 2010

Now that I did some searching around, I must have had the 94/95 sensor in the 93 housing. The housing is the same, only thing different is the 4 bolt flange. They are both identical 70mm housings. But the stock 93 Cobra sensor( or T-Bird/Cougar) will run leaner. Oddly enough the C&L 73mm for 19lbers is right in the middle of the stock 55m and the 93 Cobra, leaner than the 55mm and richer than the 70mm 93.

89drop · Nov 27, 2010

93GTStang said:
It was along time ago, but I am not sure if at the time I used my stock electronics in the 70mm 93 Cobra housing or what. I'll have to go look through all my old pics it was 8yrs ago. I do know it worked fine, no issues at all. I ran it NA and with the SC, in my 93 GT.

The MAF transfer function for the 94/95 70mm is closer to the stock 55mm than the 93 Cobra MAF thats a definite as I have Diablo CMR tuning software and BE/EA.

i was hoping it would work for better air flow, the electronics look identical, but im sure they are different, and the way the electronics mount on are identical...

bp50 · Nov 28, 2010

I have that same housing (T-bird) but swapped electronics from a 94 stang with no problems or you can use any of the electronics that jrichker posted. Remember 4.6 t-birds/cougars use obd 2 electronics (94-95 Stangs obd 1)

89drop · Nov 28, 2010

bp50 said:
I have that same housing (T-bird) but swapped electronics from a 94 stang with no problems or you can use any of the electronics that jrichker posted. Remember 4.6 t-birds/cougars use obd 2 electronics (94-95 Stangs obd 1)

gotcha! so thoredicly i could just temporaroly use my electronics and swap housings and get better air flow for now until i stumble upon another of the listed electronics?

Mustang5L5 · Nov 28, 2010

No you really shouldn't swap electronics. You might get the car to run "fine", but you have no idea if it is.

When you start swapping things, you use electronics with different maf transfer functions with housings with different sample tube flow ratios.

A tune changes everything, as some guys make the larger 80 and 90mm mafs work fine. But if you are doing plug and play type of swapping....stick to the mafs jrichtker listed above.

I am running a 94-95 maf with adapter here. 70mm

89drop · Nov 28, 2010

Mustang5L5 said:
No you really shouldn't swap electronics. You might get the car to run "fine", but you have no idea if it is.

When you start swapping things, you use electronics with different maf transfer functions with housings with different sample tube flow ratios.

A tune changes everything, as some guys make the larger 80 and 90mm mafs work fine. But if you are doing plug and play type of swapping....stick to the mafs jrichtker listed above.

I am running a 94-95 maf with adapter here. 70mm

just picked one up today, going to search ebay for the adaptor plate now.

93GTStang · Nov 28, 2010

Mustang5L5 said:
No you really shouldn't swap electronics. You might get the car to run "fine", but you have no idea if it is.

When you start swapping things, you use electronics with different maf transfer functions with housings with different sample tube flow ratios.

A tune changes everything, as some guys make the larger 80 and 90mm mafs work fine. But if you are doing plug and play type of swapping....stick to the mafs jrichtker listed above.

I am running a 94-95 maf with adapter here. 70mm

I'm not quite sure if that's what was done to mine it was along time ago. I do know it worked great though, I had tried a C&L 76mm but it was too lean. I ran the 70mm 93 meter for years NA and SC'ed.

I have done tunes for stock MAF, C&L and Pro M. Once you go with a chip any combo can work if you know the transfer. None of the supplied ones are ever perfect anyways, all cars seem to be a little different.

Could be why my 93 GT was ok, must have been really rich from the factory.

93GTStang · Nov 28, 2010

89drop said:
just picked one up today, going to search ebay for the adaptor plate now.

Under $20 just get the aluminum V6 one for 3.8 Mustang it's the same.

Maryland Stang · Nov 29, 2010

89drop said:
gotcha! so thoredicly i could just temporaroly use my electronics and swap housings and get better air flow for now until i stumble upon another of the listed electronics?

No. Let me see if I can explain this.

Say you have 2 pipes. One is a 4 inch pipe and the other pipe is 8 inch. You need to know how much water flows through the 4 inch pipe. You contact a engineering company that makes flow meters. They design a meter for you that just drops into the 4 inch pipe and can tell you to the drop how much water is going through the pipe since you told them how big a diameter the pipe was.

Now you take that same meter that was custom designed for the 4 inch pipe and drop it into a 8 inch pipe. You turn the water on and notice that there seems to be a whole lot more water coming out of the end of the pipe despite the fact that your meter says that it's flowing the same exact amount of water.

It does this because of the increased area that water can flow through the 8 inch pipe verses the 4 inch pipe. The meter is expecting that the pipe will be 4 inches and you've put a 8 inch pipe on instead.

Now you can either mechanically re-calibrate the existing meter to correct for the increased diameter of the pipe or you make your meter electronic and use the software that records the meter's data to re-calibrate for the increased diameter.

It's the same exact thing when you start swapping sensors between housings. The sensors are specifically calibrated for a specific diameter and shape housing and sample tube. When you move the sensor to another housing the readings will be off unless the new housing and sample tube have been calibrated to compensate for a specific sensor.

jrichker · Nov 29, 2010

Maryland Stang said:
No. Let me see if I can explain this.

Say you have 2 pipes. One is a 4 inch pipe and the other pipe is 8 inch. You need to know how much water flows through the 4 inch pipe. You contact a engineering company that makes flow meters. They design a meter for you that just drops into the 4 inch pipe and can tell you to the drop how much water is going through the pipe since you told them how big a diameter the pipe was.

Now you take that same meter that was custom designed for the 4 inch pipe and drop it into a 8 inch pipe. You turn the water on and notice that there seems to be a whole lot more water coming out of the end of the pipe despite the fact that your meter says that it's flowing the same exact amount of water.

It does this because of the increased area that water can flow through the 8 inch pipe verses the 4 inch pipe. The meter is expecting that the pipe will be 4 inches and you've put a 8 inch pipe on instead.

Now you can either mechanically re-calibrate the existing meter to correct for the increased diameter of the pipe or you make your meter electronic and use the software that records the meter's data to re-calibrate for the increased diameter.

It's the same exact thing when you start swapping sensors between housings. The sensors are specifically calibrated for a specific diameter and shape housing and sample tube. When you move the sensor to another housing the readings will be off unless the new housing and sample tube have been calibrated to compensate for a specific sensor.

Excellent!

93GTStang · Nov 29, 2010

The best way to use a non-stock MAF is to use the actual MAF flow data (transfer function) via a custom tune with a chip. The only way you can safely take one sensor and use it in another housing is to map out a complete new transfer which would require alot of time.

Aftermarket "calibrated" meters involve tricking the PCM into seeing less air. C&L uses a sample tube of course and Pro M/PMAS modifies the sensor itself. The C&L method uses different size sample tubes to change the amount of air reaching the sensor element. They both make the stock PCM think LESS air is being ingested by the engine so the injector pulse width is less, less air so less fuel. Thats how meters for 24lb/30lb/etc work. The BAD thing being that the load is now going to be wrong. In a foxbody it's not as critical because at WOT there is a seperate timing table but at part throttle you end up with more timing because the PCM thinks it is not ingesting much air. It really causes issues on 94 up because the timing is load based and there is not WOT spark table.

93GTStang · Nov 29, 2010

Another thing too is that Ford used the same electronics in multiple sensor housings, but that does not make that whole housing a direct swap. ONLY the sensor itself.

89drop · Nov 29, 2010

93GTStang said:
Another thing too is that Ford used the same electronics in multiple sensor housings, but that does not make that whole housing a direct swap. ONLY the sensor itself.

picked one of these up today

1995-94 Mustang 3.8L F2VF-12B579-A2A
ill probably put it in tomorrow...
thanks again guys, and thanks 93GTStang for putting it in dummy terms for me, i need that from time to time.

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