Max Power From a N/A Engine

j_lutter31 · Dec 5, 2008

What kind of numbers could I get without a blower, turbo, etc....Of course I would do a H/C/I and all the little stuff, U/D's, CAI, etc....just curious how far I could get before I would have to turn to an aspirated setup

Gearbanger 101 · Dec 5, 2008

With the stock 302ci displacement, you could probably push it close to 350-380rwhp with a fairly wild engine combination. It would require a lot of gear and a pretty nasty converter in order to keep it within its power band.....and don't expect it to be very pleasant to drive under any circumstances but wide open throttle

If you want it to remain streetable, I wouldn't plan on pushing it any further than about 300-330rwhp. This can be done with off the shelf parts, while still providing decent street manners.

StinkinLincoln · Dec 5, 2008

Gearbanger 101 said:
With the stock 302ci displacement, you could probably push it close to 350-380rwhp with a fairly wild engine combination. It would require a lot of gear and a pretty nasty converter in order to keep it within its power band.....and don't expect it to be very pleasant to drive under any circumstances but wide open throttle

If you want it to remain streetable, I wouldn't plan on pushing it any further than about 300-330rwhp. This can be done with off the shelf parts, while still providing decent street manners.

wrong. im very confident you could make 350rwhp and drive it in traffic every day.
its all in the combination, and the cam will make or break it.

if you really want to learn more/ hear of first hand experiences, ill go find the threads and post them here.

Gearbanger 101 · Dec 5, 2008

StinkinLincoln said:
wrong. im very confident you could make 350rwhp and drive it in traffic every day.
its all in the combination, and the cam will make or break it.

if you really want to learn more/ hear of first hand experiences, ill go find the threads and post them here.

Wait, so our horsepower estimates of a theoretical engine combo differ by all of 20hp and I'm flat out wrong?!?

Tell you what, I'll just wait for you to post a couple of examples.

Either way, I suppose 350rwhp is possible, but I have yet to see it....and not many are going to pull it off while keeping the low end torque and low speed street manners.

I mentioned the 300-330rwhp range, because realistically that is the level that most seem to be running on the street and still manage to stay closest to the characteristics of the stock package. Someone may not care that the car no longer is able to suport enough vacuum to run their power brakes. Some may not care if you need 4.30 gears and a 4,500RPM stall just to get it past the horrible characteristics of some wild cam and head combination. I on the other hand do.

Steetability and drivability are many things to different people. To me, it means a reasonable idle, crisp throttle response down low and a strong, linear pull from off idle, to red line. I don't want to drive a car that turns into a Honda civic if its caught in the wrong gear at the wrong RPM, nor do would I consider one that had to buzz the top end of the tach in order to see the majority of its torque and horsepower.

Now, if he wants to talk stroker engines, then that's a different story....but since he only made mention of changing H/C/I and adding bolt-ons, I based my estimation on the stock displacement.

Killercanary · Dec 5, 2008

The "norm" for a HCI setup is 275-285rwhp with mild street oriented parts. The better performing setups are in the 290-310rwhp range. 310rwhp NA in a 94-95 is a pretty stout HCI package on a stock shortblock. A few have eclipsed it but its a rarity. I only tell you this so that you don't set unreal expectations.

When looking at 302 combos, make sure to look at other 94-95 combos because they do in fact usually dyno lower than similar combos in fox's. I made 304rwhp/331rwtq with my AFR/FTI/Edelbrock combo and similar setups in fox's were in the 315-320rwhp/330-340rwtq.

Killercanary · Dec 5, 2008

BTW- my dad makes 347rwhp with his NA 302 and its not what I would call easy or normal at all. Its a well thought out combo and its a bit on the wild side. His combo with a 94-95 computer would be a bear to tune I think.

Zero Signal · Dec 6, 2008

Just shoot for one horse per cubic inch with a 94-95. It's about the norm for a well matched H/C/I and shortblock combo. If you're wacky like Paul, you shoot for 1.25-1.35 hp/cube

Pokageek · Dec 6, 2008

Gearbanger 101 said:
With the stock 302ci displacement, you could probably push it close to 350-380rwhp with a fairly wild engine combination. It would require a lot of gear and a pretty nasty converter in order to keep it within its power band.....and don't expect it to be very pleasant to drive under any circumstances but wide open throttle

If you want it to remain streetable, I wouldn't plan on pushing it any further than about 300-330rwhp. This can be done with off the shelf parts, while still providing decent street manners.

This is MORE Than sound advice.

final5-0 · Dec 6, 2008

I've spent a L O T of time tuning a stock block combo

By far ... Most of those efforts were dealing with drivability issues :Word:

I want to stress ... SAE ... rear wheel dyno results tell me

1 hp per ci is very obtainable and with near stock like drivability

Don't be mislead ... These days ... MOST dyno pulls are done with STD

at 325 ... again ... SAE ... the combo will be start to diminish in drivability

at 350 ... I'd have to say things would be OK for a weekend car
but
Certainly ... not the kind of car you'd wanna drive around daily

btw ... I'm talking 94-95 pcm and NA

Grady

Black95GTS · Dec 6, 2008

StinkinLincoln said:
wrong. im very confident you could make 350rwhp and drive it in traffic every day.
its all in the combination, and the cam will make or break it.

if you really want to learn more/ hear of first hand experiences, ill go find the threads and post them here.

Please post said threads, I'd love to be educated. Where are all these daily driven 350 rwhp 302s? And I don't want to hear about someone's brother's cousin's aunt's nephew's best friend's college roomate's mustang.

Its not impossible to get to those numbers, but something with a 7500 RPM redline, 4.56 gears, and a 6000 rpm 8" converter isn't what I would call streetable!

Adam

BlackVert · Dec 6, 2008

Killercanary said:
The "norm" for a HCI setup is 275-285rwhp with mild street oriented parts. The better performing setups are in the 290-310rwhp range. 310rwhp NA in a 94-95 is a pretty stout HCI package on a stock shortblock. A few have eclipsed it but its a rarity. I only tell you this so that you don't set unreal expectations.

When looking at 302 combos, make sure to look at other 94-95 combos because they do in fact usually dyno lower than similar combos in fox's. I made 304rwhp/331rwtq with my AFR/FTI/Edelbrock combo and similar setups in fox's were in the 315-320rwhp/330-340rwtq.

+1

StinkinLincoln · Dec 6, 2008

streetable is what you can deal with. if you can drive it 200 miles one way and not have a problem, how is it not streetable?

take mine for example, 95GT & 331. 10.7:1CR. i HAD rpm heads, rpm2 intake, and xe270 cam, 3.27's and aode. i now have canfield 195's, efi spyder intake, and custom cam with an intake lift of low 600's. and 4.30's and im going to a tko600 faceplated.
a very large majority of people say i am crazy to put 4.30's in a street car. i got sticky tires, i dont care. ill have a .62OD it wont screem at 3500rpms down the interstate, again not a problem. 90mm stuff and 3in exhaust what i have now (still need the tb) people say its too big. well its not.

the examples im talking about are not people i know first hand nor cars i have seen first hand- so i must say i was wrong for typing that in my first post. im sorry for that, as im typing this i went back and looked at it a saw i put that. my apologies.
let me go look and find a couple examples.

StinkinLincoln · Dec 6, 2008

this is the first i cam across- it is a 331, not a 302/306. look at the thread and you will see why i posted it.
http://*******.com/index.php/topic,17037.0.html

think the 302 on the first page only has 300rwhp? http://*******.com/index.php/topic,14643.0.html
keep reading theres more great info there.

http://*******.com/index.php/topic,17179.0.html

http://*******.com/index.php/topic,16442.0.html

http://*******.com/index.php/topic,16115.0.html

o btw, the dyno isnt god. let the track do the talking.

StinkinLincoln · Dec 6, 2008

well great, the site blocks the addresses. you will have to edit the stars to sbf tech with no space to make it work.

StinkinLincoln · Dec 6, 2008

edit.

Brian@PAR · Dec 6, 2008

Chassis dyno's can tell you just about whatever you want them to. The operator is a major factor. This is true with engine dyno's as well but to a much lesser extent.

As far as power. 1.4 FWHP per CI with 16-17" of vaccum on a 306 is easily done. This is best paired with a 5 speed.

Killercanary · Dec 6, 2008

StinkinLincoln said:
take mine for example, 95GT & 331. 10.7:1CR. i HAD rpm heads, rpm2 intake, and xe270 cam, 3.27's and aode. i now have canfield 195's, efi spyder intake, and custom cam with an intake lift of low 600's. and 4.30's and im going to a tko600 faceplated.
a very large majority of people say i am crazy to put 4.30's in a street car. i got sticky tires, i dont care. ill have a .62OD it wont screem at 3500rpms down the interstate, again not a problem. 90mm stuff and 3in exhaust what i have now (still need the tb) people say its too big. well its not.

What does your car dyno and run at the track?

Based on the parts in your car I too would generalize your car as a not very streetable setup. the trans, rear gear, intake choice, etc all trade things that I would not be willing to in a street car. HOWEVER, as you alluded to, streetability is in the eyes of the beholder.

My car is my definition of streetable. It has AC, power steering, a normal synchro'd transmission, a diaphragm clutch that is easily slipped and doesn't chatter, I can lug it around at 1000rpms with no hickups or jerks, it gets ~20mph on the highway, it can set and idle in traffic without loading up/overheating, etc. I do run a 4.10 gear and its not bad, but this same combo would be find with a 3.73 or even a 3.55 gear. It wouldn't be as fast on the track, but it'd be a trade off for a little bit of an easier car to drive on the street.

My dad's car for the parts that are in it is actually a manageable car on the street. Swap out the manual rack, put tail pipes on it, take the 4.0's out for something like a 3.73 and it gain a lot of its civility back.

But to get back to the original posters question, here's a good place to look to get a realistic idea of what the 94-95's are capable with street oriented setups. Its a little dated now but its still a good indicator.

http://forums.stangnet.com/6462798-post8.html

Killercanary · Dec 6, 2008

StinkinLincoln said:
the dyno isnt god. let the track do the talking.

I couldn't agree more, yet so few that claim parts work have any numbers.

j_lutter31 · Dec 6, 2008

Wow, I'm impressed how much of a response this has gotten...:SNSign:

Killercanary said:
http://forums.stangnet.com/6462798-post8.html

That post has alot of good info.....

Black Stampede · Dec 6, 2008

300 rwhp give or take 10 horse is normal. Wow guys that was hard.

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