MINI STARTER WIRING???

A67StangMaster · Oct 24, 2006

Ok I got my new mini starter in the mail I bolted it down then try to do the wireing.. after I wired it i pluged the + side in and it started cranking over???

I dont get it here is the wireing diagram they gave me.....

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scottspence9 · Oct 24, 2006

the main battery cable needs to attach to the RH side of the original solnoid and The main cable to the starter. On the left hand side of the original solinoid you should hook up the small wire to the small terminal on the starter that should be the only wire on the left side. Hook up the original solinid how it was on the S and I terminals and that should work. If it started when you attached the small wire to the starter then that wire must have power. The small wire should only have power when you crank the key. With that type of setup you are using 2 starter solinoids.

vc351w · Oct 24, 2006

The diagram is showing the wiring correctly. What you want to do is take your original large wire for the starter and bolt it to the battery side of the solenoid. then take the supplied wire from the kit, and connect it to the starter. the wire from the kit should connect to the small terminal on the starter. the other end of the wwire from the kit goes to the solenoid terminal where you disconnected the large wire. that's it.

A67StangMaster · Oct 24, 2006

yea but when I connect the main battery cable and the starter cable on the RH of the solenoid side it turns on the starter???

A67StangMaster · Oct 24, 2006

I think I wired my alternator wrong any one have a wireing diagram?

BobV · Oct 25, 2006

reenmachine · Oct 25, 2006

vc351w and BobV are correct. The cable from the + terminal on your battery and the heavy cable going down to the starter should both connect to the LEFT side of the solenoid. Then, the thinner wire should run from the RIGHT side of the solenoid down to the small terminal on the mini starter. The two little wires that plug onto the front of the solenoid stay the same as stock.

dennis112 · Oct 26, 2006

Perhaps I am missing something.

This is the way I've done it for years:

The new selenoid will energize when the original stock one does. Power will stop when the ignition key is released.

The jumper is simple to do and it means only the original starter wire needs to be routed down through the headers. It also keeps me from modifying factory wiring.

reenmachine · Oct 26, 2006

That will work fine as well. I think the logic behind doing it the new way is simply that the new-type solenoid on the mini starter can probably handle the task more reliably in the long run. It takes the high-current load off of the old solenoid.

brin0357 · Oct 29, 2006

Dennis, by wiring it that way it caused my starter to hang up for about two seconds. I had to run a heavy gauge wire from the battery hot side of the solenoid` to the post on the mini starter. The little spade is your trigger wire that goes on the opposite side of the solenoid, (were your stock starter cable went) and that can be in thin gauge like 16 gauge.

BobV · Oct 30, 2006

dennis112 said:
Perhaps I am missing something.

This is the way I've done it for years:

The new selenoid will energize when the original stock one does. Power will stop when the ignition key is released.

The jumper is simple to do and it means only the original starter wire needs to be routed down through the headers. It also keeps me from modifying factory wiring.

Ford specifically warns NOT to use the "jumper wire" setup:

"! ! ! WARNING: DO NOT INSTALL A JUMPER WIRE BETWEEN THE BATTERY TERMINAL AND THE SOLENOID BLADE TERMINAL AT THE STARTER TO AVOID THE USE OF THE # 12 WIRE. IF DONE, VOLTAGE IS GENERATED TO THE SOLENOID BY THE STARTER SPINNING AFTER THE RELEASE OF THE START KEY OR BUTTON, CAUSING THE STARTER TO REMAIN ENGAGED, RESULTING IN SEVERE DAMAGE AND EVENTUAL FAILURE OF THE STARTER ! ! !"

dennis112 · Oct 30, 2006

BobV said:
Ford specifically warns NOT to use the "jumper wire" setup:

"! ! ! WARNING: DO NOT INSTALL A JUMPER WIRE BETWEEN THE BATTERY TERMINAL AND THE SOLENOID BLADE TERMINAL AT THE STARTER TO AVOID THE USE OF THE # 12 WIRE. IF DONE, VOLTAGE IS GENERATED TO THE SOLENOID BY THE STARTER SPINNING AFTER THE RELEASE OF THE START KEY OR BUTTON, CAUSING THE STARTER TO REMAIN ENGAGED, RESULTING IN SEVERE DAMAGE AND EVENTUAL FAILURE OF THE STARTER ! ! !"

Sorry, but the above advice doesn't really apply.

The original selenoid is still mounted in the system and is wired the same as from the factory. That selenoid is what is switching the power on or off to the starter and the second selenoid. Thus I only have power going to the starter when the key is in the "start" position. When I release the key, all power to the starter and the 2nd selenoid is removed.

Robdogg67 · Oct 30, 2006

I believe Bob is correct on this. I too just put in a mini-starter and I wired it the way Dennis suggested. It also hangs on the flywheel for about 2-3 seconds after motor is started. I swapped starters only to have the same issue. I was hoping to leave it the traditional way with the jumper wire but looks like I may have to do it the "correct" way. Bummer as I'll have three big wires (+Battery, one wire Alternator and Starter)coming off the left post looking not so cool.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

BobV · Oct 30, 2006

Yes, your wiring method is exactly what they are talking about - read thru those directions. They are leaving the fender-mounted solenoid in place, and specifically warning not to use a jumper wire on the new starter-mounted solenoid....

The jumper wire does seem to work fine for some people, but there have also been several people who noted trouble with the starter gear staying engaged for a few seconds after key-release..=

Tim65GT · Oct 30, 2006

When I release the key, all power to the starter and the 2nd selenoid is removed.

Not so true...

IF DONE, VOLTAGE IS GENERATED TO THE SOLENOID BY THE STARTER SPINNING AFTER THE RELEASE OF THE START KEY OR BUTTON, CAUSING THE STARTER TO REMAIN ENGAGED,

What the warning is talking about can, and will happen - some instances worse than others.

A motor uses electrical energy to produce mechanical energy, and a generator uses mechanical energy to produce electrical energy. They are very similar. If a motor is spun it will produce electricity.

When the original solenoid is released, there is no BATTERY power going to the starter, but the voltage generated by the spinning starter is what is keeping the new starter mounted solenoid from de-energizing quickly to retract the gear from the flywheel.

Robdogg67:

Bummer as I'll have three big wires (+Battery, one wire Alternator and Starter)coming off the left post looking not so cool.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

You could run the alt and bat cables directly to the starter and get rid of the original solenoid. Just use a small bosch type relay for the start circuit. It could be hidden anywhere.

dennis112 · Oct 31, 2006

Tim65GT said:
A motor uses electrical energy to produce mechanical energy, and a generator uses mechanical energy to produce electrical energy. They are very similar. If a motor is spun it will produce electricity.

Tim.

Thank you for the very clear explanation--it makes perfect sense. I guess I have been one of the lucky ones with no problems to date--since 1992 and 30,000 miles on one car and 2 summers on the GT.

As I said when I first posted "Perhaps I'm missing something"

With this knowledge I will plan on doing a little rewiring during the winter downtime.

jcode68 · Oct 31, 2006

I have a Powermaster mini starter I put in recently and their directions actually tell you to use a jumper wire. I have done this and not experienced any problems to date and hopefully won't. Maybe this wiring issue applies to certain starters?

Tim65GT · Oct 31, 2006

This is the Powermaster FAQ link:

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/faq-starter.html

It has the following FAQ and Answer:

Why does my starter seem to “run on” after the switch is released?

This is a common complaint on Ford permanent magnet starters, although it can occur on any permanent magnet starter in the right conditions. This situation develops when the ignition terminal on the starter is “jumpered” to the battery terminal on the starter and a remote solenoid is used. Permanent magnet starters can actually produce power if they are driven from an outside source (i.e. the starter will act like an alternator once the engine fires and starts spinning). The current produced in the starter for this second or so will flow from the starter’s battery terminal to the starter’s ignition terminal and hold the solenoid in. This will cause the one to two second delay in the solenoid release and an irritating noise. The solution is to wire the starter per the instruction sheet, which will ensure that the ignition switch terminal goes dead the instance the key is released.

So...I think the key thing here is permanent magnet starters...

From jcode68:

I have a Powermaster mini starter I put in recently and their directions actually tell you to use a jumper wire. I have done this and not experienced any problems to date and hopefully won't. Maybe this wiring issue applies to certain starters?

Powermaster probably designs their starters so they are not susceptible to this. It’s possible they have a diode built in.

Of course there are other mechanical reasons a starter can hang...

hsr · Oct 31, 2006

Tim65GT said:
You could run the alt and bat cables directly to the starter and get rid of the original solenoid. Just use a small bosch type relay for the start circuit. It could be hidden anywhere.

Tim(All),

Why do these starters require a 12ga wire to trigger the soleniod compared to starters with external soleniods having lower gauge wire.

Tim65GT · Oct 31, 2006

hsr:

Why do these starters require a 12ga wire to trigger the soleniod compared to starters with external soleniods having lower gauge wire.

The Ford type external fender mounted solenoid only pulls a set of contacts down.

IIRC on my Chevys I've had, the starter mounted solenoid also closes a contact, but also mechanically throws the gear into the flywheel. This would require much more current, thus a bigger wire.

MINI STARTER WIRING???

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