Modular VS Pushrod? Where can I get details

Lex · Mar 31, 2005

Before I hear, which is better. I just like to find a site where I can get details on the differences between the 2. I know the basics, but I'm into a learning rush, and this come to interest. Any links would be great. Thanks.

StratGT · Mar 31, 2005

For now, your on the right website because there is 5.0L info and Mod motor info. There are more aftermarket parts for the 5L engine so some people will make judgment based on that alone. Example, fully ported mod heads flow as well as most aftermarket 5L heads. In the end you will find some advantages and disadvantages for both. Both engines could use some better internals. You know what I mean, stuff like that.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 31, 2005

What exactly do you want to know.....Mechanical differences between the two? What exactly do you consider as far as yourself "already knowing the basics" ?

Tylerb59 · Mar 31, 2005

Here is a pretty cool article on Modular Engines:

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0302MMFF_MixMatch/

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 31, 2005

Here's another on rebuilding the SOHC.....

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb40228.htm

DBMSTNG · Mar 31, 2005

5.0L - lighter, cheaper, easier to mod, more power potential.

4.6L 2V - more power stock, better on emissions.

4.6L 4V - expensive, high rpm power V8

for the performance/dollar ratio, the only engine that comes close to the 5.0L is the Chevy 350.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 31, 2005

DBMSTNG said:
5.0L - lighter, cheaper, easier to mod, more power potential.

Agreed only as far as N/A potential goes. When you compare the two engines with forced induction, the 4.6L Mod Motor has the old 5.0L OHV beat hands down.

csledd · Mar 31, 2005

I always assumed Modular was better, mostly because when they went to the Modular engines horsepower and torque went up. A guy I know who has Ponitac G6 said his pushrod engine is better than a modular.. how true is this?

WRXracer · Mar 31, 2005

The difference is the push rod has a cam in the middle of the engine, and the SOHC engine has 2 cams in each head.. I dont know if its a better design, but the 4.6 looks a lot bigger then the 5.0 side by side.. push rod engine I would think would be better, cuzz you make all the power in the heads and the 5.0 is a smaller engine even though its bigger..

csledd · Mar 31, 2005

hmm.. 2 cams aren't better? lol I told my friend who owns a neon I have 2 cams and he was like DOHC.. I said nope

WRXracer · Mar 31, 2005

I dunno if 2 cams are better then one, or if 4 is better then 2.. I thought it was all about how much the heads flow..

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 31, 2005

WRXracer said:
The difference is the push rod has a cam in the middle of the engine, and the SOHC engine has 2 cams in each head...

Cough....cough....*1 cam in each head for a SOHC*....cough!

WRXracer said:
I dont know if its a better design, but the 4.6 looks a lot bigger then the 5.0 side by side.. push rod engine I would think would be better, cuzz you make all the power in the heads and the 5.0 is a smaller engine even though its bigger..

The OHC engine is a great design. It's a more efficient running design than that of the old OHV variety, with less moving parts. The heads and intake outflow anything that ever came on a factory 5.0L OHV engine (even the non-PI engines) and their bottom end as well as the design of their block is of a far better than that of a OHV Windsor. Also, the modular engines don't often suffer from the same problem keeping their top end together (head gaskets) like the Ford does when cylinder pressure is elevated.

The drawback unfortunately to the engine, is that Ford didn't take advantage of this and put bean counter pistons in rods in the block, limiting it's stock potential. Not only that, but it was originally slated for use as a front wheel drive power plant. In order to do this they had to make the engine more compact to assume the transverse mounted position. They were built with the bore spacing very close together as a result. This, combined with the crankshaft being positioned way up into the block limits the engines ability for big displacement in comparison to an OHV Windsor. That’s why even when you see stroker kits for the 4.6L, the largest on the market thus far only brings it up to a 5.2L

Yeah, the OHV engine is still less expensive to build, but you've also got to remember that the OHV Windsor’s also had a 25-year head start as far as production and a good 10-year head start ahead of the Modular engines as far as the aftermarket goes.

Regardless....there will be a few die-hards that will argue how the 302/351 Fords are a better choice as they are cheaper to build and easier to tune. And to an extent, that's true. But as a whole, the OHC remains the superior engine. Not only that, but since they haven't used an OHV V8 engine in a Ford vehicle for over7-years now...and it doesn't ever look as though the Blue Oval camp is ever going to go that direction again anytime soon......You’d better get used to seeing a whole lot more high powered Modular motors being churned out in the future.

bdcardinal · Mar 31, 2005

they used the 5.0 in australia up until 2002. but im just being picky. you could even get a 5.6L in australia. built by tickford, it was a factory 347.

jasonlee0704 · Apr 1, 2005

Which engine is better all depends on what you're starting with, where you want to go with it, and how much money and time you have to get there.

If you're looking for huge displacement and a corresponding kick in the pants (i.e. huge torque) pushrods are the way to go. If you'll notice, the 4.6 DOHC is as big and heavy as a 460 big block:

Ford Racing Crate Engines

FRPP iron-block 7.5L 460 engine - 669 lbs. 32" x 26" x 26"
FRPP aluminum-block 4.6L DOHC Aviator engine - 672 lbs. 28" x 30" x 29 7/8"

There's a reason you don't see anybody making 6.0L+ OHC engines - they'd crowd out everything else in the engine bay.

If you want out-of-the-box power, then 4V Modulars are the way to go. Ford didn't invest the R&D (or it was too worried about CAFE and emissions) to build the 5.0L to its potential. For example, the factory ratings from 87-95 for the 5.0L were approximately peak flywheel 215 HP, 285 ft.-lbs. torque. Common H/C/I combos put a stock block dynoing at well over 300 peak rear wheel HP, or over 345 HP at the flywheel (if you factor in a 15% driveline loss).

The sheer amount of aftermarket support and choice for 5.0L/5.8L Windsor pushrods can't be discounted, either. It's been 12 years since Ford introduced the Modular engine, and everyone's STILL saying the aftermarket support is going to catch up Real Soon Now (tm). Of course, they've been saying that since 1996, and aftermarket and hobbyist support for the pushrods has yet to taper off between then and now.

Basically, Ford pushrods will need more work and modification to get them where you want them to be, but that work will on the most part be cheaper and you'll have more ways to do it than similar work on an overhead cammer. The Ford cammers have a stouter stock block and are better at square one. End points are about the same on the extremes - there are stroked, overbored, and blown 351W pushrods putting out more than 1000 HP, and I've heard of at least one blown modular over 900 HP.

Neither basic engine design is particularly "new" or "modern" - overhead cam engines have been around since before World War 2, and pushrod engines even longer than that.

StratGT · Apr 1, 2005

One of the reasons there have been no aftermarket heads is because the heads on a mod motor are really quite good. I wrote a letter to Edelbrock requesting a aftermarket head and that's what they told me. However, if someone were to make a 2v head with great flow numbers and a good price they would probably sell like hot cakes.

tjm73 · Apr 1, 2005

StratGT said:
One of the reasons there have been no aftermarket heads is because the heads on a mod motor are really quite good. I wrote a letter to Edelbrock requesting a aftermarket head and that's what they told me. However, if someone were to make a 2v head with great flow numbers and a good price they would probably sell like hot cakes.

Patriot Performance and Power Heads have ported SOHC heads the flow better than stock.

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 1, 2005

tjm73 said:
Patriot Performance and Power Heads have ported SOHC heads the flow better than stock.

Yes, but what he means is that besides the FRPP heads, there have been no "aftermarket" castings realeased by any of the companies to replace the stock head. As of yet, it's been virtually impossible to improve beyond the flow and performance level of a fully ported stock casting. And in most cases, a higher flowing head than that isn't required on even the craziest of street build-ups, anyway.

DBMSTNG · Apr 1, 2005

Gearbanger 101 said:
Agreed only as far as N/A potential goes. When you compare the two engines with forced induction, the 4.6L Mod Motor has the old 5.0L OHV beat hands down.

with stock 5.0L heads, yes the 4.6L will win, but not with aftermarket heads that will outflow P&P 2V heads.

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 1, 2005

DBMSTNG said:
with stock 5.0L heads, yes the 4.6L will win, but not with aftermarket heads that will outflow P&P 2V heads.

Sure, but now you're comparing an engine with aftermarket heads, to one with stock heads and suddenly the old 302 starts to become more expensive and narrow the gap as far as cost factor is concerned.

Kilgore Trout · Apr 1, 2005

Damn, this thread started out kinda slow but turned into a most excellent tech thread. I have learned a lot from this thread, thanks...

Modular VS Pushrod? Where can I get details

Lex

StratGT

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

Tylerb59

Banned

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

DBMSTNG

I fantasize about it being BIG!

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

csledd

Official Ovary Punching Member

WRXracer

New Member

csledd

Official Ovary Punching Member

WRXracer

New Member

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

bdcardinal

tree hugger

jasonlee0704

New Member

StratGT

tjm73

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

DBMSTNG

I fantasize about it being BIG!

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

Kilgore Trout

Fried or Broiled ?

Similar threads

Modular VS Pushrod? Where can I get details

Straight Outta Locash

Banned

Straight Outta Locash

I fantasize about it being BIG!

Straight Outta Locash

Official Ovary Punching Member

New Member

Official Ovary Punching Member

New Member

Straight Outta Locash

tree hugger

New Member

Straight Outta Locash

I fantasize about it being BIG!

Straight Outta Locash

Fried or Broiled ?

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency