More Power Basic Info Thread

JJ95GTID said:

For me the most gain in performance comes from 3 parts: heads, midpipe and intake.

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This says a lot

There can be a down side to going for major parts before bolt ons

I'd say the attractive thing about bolt ons would be ......

Don't need a lot of skill
Don't need a lot of tools
Easy to install

Now the mid pipe and intake is not too big of a challenge for
a fellow just getting started

BUT

A set of heads ... That requires a good bit more from peeps

I do believe the two things I would do first would be
1) Moving away from the OEM 4 cat mid pipe
2) Intake ... NOT A PIPE

Well ... Truth be told
I go for a set of steep gears :Word:
but
This thread is all about making power
so
I'll not go there at this time

As for tb's & meter's ........

You gotta be generating considerably more airflow for them to be
a mod that is worthwhile or yields a substantial gain

I'll just leave it with this thought .........

Looking at my sig .........
It can be seen ... I practice what I preach

Again ... Long Term Plan should dictate your choice in parts such as
intake

Grady

95BlueStallion said:

I have almost every bolt on you can buy, full exhaust with O/R X, removed the smog & EGR, spare tire and jack (runflats), and the car still feels stock. I bought a TF Streetheat upper and lower, and felt a slight gain on the SOTP meter. The biggest thing I noticed was that my power band seemed to shift to a higher RPM range. I have no factual data such as dyno pulls or track times to back up what my rear side feels, which is why I didnt post. I think this thread is a great idea though, so I just wanted to show my support for Grady's good thinking. One day I will make it to the track to get a time to go along with my modding efforts. Next up for me is heads, just saving my pennies and keeping my eyes open for a good deal.

Edit: Grady I hear you on the heat, grew up outside of Dallas. The one thing about Iowa is the dog on humidity. It gets so sticky your sweat just wont run off your forehead!

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Nick

Do me a favor and be specific about how you use the word bolt on

Please list out each and every thing you have done to your Stang

That is ... Stuff that makes or is supposed to make more power

Grady

95BlueStallion said:

Can do. I have the following:

BBK Underdrive Pullies (alternator included)
Self made 4" diameter straight PVC pipe CAI with K&N cone filter on the end in the fenderwell
Summit Brand 70mm TB
MSD Cap and rotor and coil
BBK Unequal shorties
Pypes O/R X
40 series flows with dumps
I unbolted the smog pump and EGR to cut off weight and parasitic drain

Then I added the TF upper and lower with the best result of them all

Dont know if it is supposed to add power, but just for future use I put in a BBK 225 lb/hr fuel pump.

I guess thats about it for bolt on power mods. I must have spent a lot more on bolt on appearance and random stuff mods!

Oh yeah, and just so I dont lead people astray, I had a computer chip burnt to shut off the smog and EGR functions and keep from getting a CEL.

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OK

Nick ... Its great that you have shared your experience here

Lets look at what has been done here
cause
I see this as being simular to what I've seen on these boards for years now

Before we go any farther ...
My intent is not to criticize
My intent is to analyze

Lets look at these mods one by one

1) BBK Underdrive Pullies (alternator included)
2) Self made 4" diameter straight PVC pipe CAI with K&N cone filter on the end in the fenderwell
3) Summit Brand 70mm TB
4) MSD Cap and rotor and coil
5) BBK Unequal shorties
6) Pypes O/R X
7) 40 series flows with dumps
8) I unbolted the smog pump and EGR to cut off weight and parasitic drain

1) Always a good way to make hp & tq ... all across the power band
however ... Those with big sound equipment could have issues
2) This is really two mods
Low restriction filter ... always a good thing
and
Cold Air Package
I needs to be said ... CAI will not yield gains when it is hot outside
however
When its cool ... you draw in cool air which is dense air
3) On a stocker or close to stock Stang ... very small if any gain
Now ... this don't mean it is a bad mod
What it does mean is ... at this point with the combo ... not all that effective
4) Ignition ... If your OEM stuff is in good shape ... not much gain here
5) On a stocker or close to a stock Stang ... a small gain
6) This is the part of the exhaust system where most gain is to be had
7) Yes ... a catback will make your Stang sound fast ... but ...........

Well ... Lets put it this way

Several years ago I ran across some good, reliable info on catbacks
347 with well macthed combo parts
He had an OEM catback
Did a dyno pull
Bolted on an aftermarket catback just after the first pull
Did another pull
He gained like 10 rwhp

Think about it
If a full on 347 only gained 10 from this mod
Does it not stand to reason a 302 which generates much less airflow
is gonna gain less from the same mod

Bottom Line Here

I know how your Stang sounds is important
but
This mod is not one of those mods that is gonna give much hp

8) This should pick up a bit of hp & tq all across the power band

IMHO I'd say 3,4, & 5 would not give as much gain as an intake
therefore
I'd go for the intake before mods such as these

Of course ... It goes without saying

If one is not dealing with NEW parts

Some of the time,you run across a great deal and you gotta scarf it up
when the opportunity presents itself

In this case here ... the tb and headers will be more effective as
other mods up the airflow

Good Stuff Nick

Grady

Pokageek said:

"As for tb's & meter's ........

You gotta be generating considerably more airflow for them to be
a mod that is worthwhile or yields a substantial gain"

True. The stock meter can handle up TO 300rwhp max IIRC. I don't know what the 65mm TB is rated for but I added it to my 306 and it was such a night and day TB feel better than any other TB I have ever had and added a lot more enjoyment to driving. Without getting side tracked by TB's what is the max for the 58mm stock and do we NEED upgrade for H/C/I bolt on? If I am off topic just ignore.

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Well

My humble little GT almost made it to 300 SAE with the OEM tb/meter

Grady

Stevejr said:

Come on get to the cobra stuff.

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Hey ... You could say we HAVE been talkin Cobra

They got the same ......

sb & meter

I'm gonna post up some more stuff later tonight

Grady

OK ... Lets move on

We've talked about how bolt ons don't do much on a stock Stang

To cut to the chase and say it another way

The OEM parts are pretty good ... Well most of em

Two quick examples on both sides of the issue are .....
1) Throttle body
It has enough reserve to be efficient even though more airflow is generated above
and beyond what a stock Stang can push out

btw ... Same can be said about
meter
rockers
ignition
catback

2) OEM 4 cat mid pipe
As we have said before ...
it can make a noticeable difference to upgrade it
Or
It not only has no reserve for a bit more airflow
It holds you back under the best conditions ... like when it was new
Who knows how much a high milage pipe might be holding one back

So lets lay out a few plans based upon a GT or Cobra that is stock
or very close to stock

We start out with
GT at around 185
Cobra around 235

Having said that ...
GT peeps need to see if they focus in on OEM GT40 stuff .......
They should'nt expect anything other than what a Cobra lays down

I'm trying to show ...
One should go into this whole Stang Modding Thing
with their eyes wide open
or
Next thing you know ... You've done lots of stuff
but
You face the reality ...You've not made much more power

Same thing can be said about a fellow who starts off with a Cobra

If he goes for aftermarket heads, cam, & intake
he need not expect more than those who have gone there before him

Here is where a plan ... a long term plan ... can be so helpful :Word:

Say you are a GT fellow and you want more than Cobra power
or
You are a Cobra guy and want more than aftermarket power

You may be asking ... WHY ... is he posting up this stuff

Because ... Us folk who have been here for a good while have seen
bunches of peeps waste so much effort & money over and over and over

Here is where I think we need to help each other see options that
go beyond bolting stuff on an OEM block and staying NA

Of course ... Compromises are to be made at every level of power
but
I still think a solid discussion with those ... who have done it

It would help peeps with making a plan which would be custom tailored
to their particular application

I see it kinda like this

If you are a GT and Cobra power is not gonna be enough
Just skip all that GT40 stuff and go straight to aftermarket

If you are a Cobra and aftermarket power ain't gonna float your boat
Just skip all that NA aftermarket stuff an move on to the next power level

I can say a fellow who has only one Stang (daily driver) has to realistic

Using my sig combo and my experience as a reference
I'd tell peeps my car behaves very stock like (due to the tune)
except
It does have a good bit of cam lope
and
That does get old ... real quick
cause
It does attract a good bit of attention

Also ... around town ... them 30's are really thirsty

So ... Just something for dd folk to think about

If around 300 is not gonna be enough, here are the basic options as I see em

First of all ... I guess it needs to be said ......
about 450 to the wheels is just about it for an OEM sb
so
I see it as kinda futile to go with a bunch of aftermarket hot rod parts
AND
A blower or turbo which will make beyond block splitting power

Consider this which I have seen make so much sense over the past
year or so ago

At stock or close to stock ... for a GT
a blower makes pretty good sense

Now ... if you be a Cobra kinda guy
a blower will just make more hp due to your better heads/intake

Of course ... a blower will require more attention from the owner than
a NA combo with gas quality, heat conditons, and such but it will make
more power with less mods than NA stuff alone

Now you could do the same thing with a turbo and I don't wanna get
involved in a thread of blower guys and turbo guys getting all bogged
down in some kinda pissin match about which is best

The idea here is

We are just thinkin out loud
and
It don't cost anything to talk about it

Well ... What do all you folk think

Who is gonna be happy with GT40 power
Who is gonna be happy with Aftermarket power
or
Does eveybody wanna skip all that OEM NA stuff and go ........

Power Adder, Stroked 5.0, or Windsor

Come on Now ... Lets Talk About It

Its Your Turn

I'll be a watchin' opcorn:

Grady

Here is some data on what others have been able to accomplish with
OEM iron heads

Grady

Venom351R said:

Are my heads sufficient for my combo our could my 351 benefit more from better flowing heads?

I have tried to find out from the previous owner what the specs on the heads are but its not know for sure what cc they are or what size the intake/exhaust valves are.

Would I be better off stepping up to a better flowing head such as a Trickflow 205cc knowing that I'll have 2.02 and 1.60 valves?

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I'd see what Ed has to say about it

Grady

can95droptop said:

What mods can i do that i can transfer onto a 351w. I didnt think there was any really that would be suitable for both. I am looking more into doing the gearing and beefing up the rear and cleaning up the interior for the time being.

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Yes ... Suitable is an important thing here

Stuff like the intake won't fit so that is a no brainer

Heads would bolt on but they'd be too small

Supporting stuff like tb, meter, inj's, etc would be transferable

Grady