Mostly stock. Which blower: Powerdyne, Paxton, Vortech?

criticman · Feb 11, 2006

Alright, so after swaying back and forth for...well, forever...I have decided I want to go with a low psi (5-9) blower.

See my sig for my specs.

Basically, here are my questions:
-Can I get away with the stock fuel system (with my fully programmable AFM PMS) after adding the blower?

-Which make (vortech, paxton, powerdyne) of the low psi blowers has the most potential for upgrades (pulleys, intercooling, etc)?

-Where is the best place for quick delivery (i.e. has the blower in stock) and cheap prices?

*note: I know there is a power adder forum, but most people I find on there do not care about 5.0's like we do in 5.0 Tech, so don't scold me for "posting in the wrong place"

Rick 91GT · Feb 11, 2006

If you want a A/Aintercooled kit your only choice is ATI from the begining, much cheap then adding the A/A after the fact.

As far as the entry level kits you listed I like the SC-Trim, although depending on your intentions down the road the S-Trim may be a better deal with the extra's you get, bypass valve, metal discharge tube, BTM, T-rex, etc...

The PMS will be fine, you'll need injectors and the 76mm may need to be swapped for a Pro-M (80 would be my choice) some have luck with the C&L's on boosted combo's, some don't.

I don't stock any of the blowers but can get them. Summit stocks the 3 you have listed though, and I think they have a warehouse near you.

criticman · Feb 11, 2006

Yeah, I figured I would need to step up to bigger injectors (stupid money) and since it seems some form of Pro-M is back in business, I figured I would be smart to step up to one of them as well.

All of the ATI kits, to my knowledge, are pretty pricey unless you get one of the non-intercooled setups.

criticman · Feb 11, 2006

What are your (or anyone else's) thoughts on Powerdyne? I like the idea of the self-contained oiling system and cooler running thanks to the belt driven setup.

IntenseBlue · Feb 11, 2006

For under 10psi and 500hp or less I'd go Powerdyne.

Tonys96Cobra · Feb 11, 2006

The powerdyne kits sell for about 1600 on ebay, 9 psi. Hard to beat that price, expecially for a street car. I know it aint a turbo, but I am pretty sure its good enough for most of us.

302RollinHard · Feb 11, 2006

subscribed

TheBocSez · Feb 11, 2006

Yeah, I am looking at Powerdyne too. No tapping of the oil pan, supposed to be easy install and I have heard that the boost comes on a little earlier too. Like Tony said, for 1600 total, it would be hard to beat.

GroverDill · Feb 11, 2006

If you have to have new do a 1k.
If you can do used look for a used S trim set up.

1993SSP · Feb 11, 2006

Vortech all the way. Ive owned powerdyne, and Vortech, the vortech is sitting under my hood right now. The vortech seems to put out the power quicker in my opinion. Bought mine through summit. Dont let tapping the oil pan scare you guys! It's a walk in the park. Plus to me the hardware and bracketry with the vortech is nicer, not to mention the belt tensioner on the powerdyne is crap and a pain in the A$$.

just4bob50 · Feb 12, 2006

I love my powerdyne, Im now making 10lbs of boost at around 6000rpms on my factory tach ( 5600 on the dyno tach ). the boost starts building buy 2500rpms and is still climing when I shift. With the stock long block I made 332hp and 363tq at the wheels. I bought my kit for 1599 from summit and then got 100 summit bucks to use later. Those power numbers were also leaving a good bit on the table as my AFR from 5200rpms on up was way to rich, over 10:1. I added a boost reference FPR after the car was tuned with the base regulator and now it pumping way to much fuel. Once I get that straightened out I should be around 350hp. My track times in my sig are with 6lbs of boost. On a down note, my internal drive belt broke 1 time, but was covered under warranty. Powerdyne now has a 3 year warrany.

criticman · Feb 12, 2006

Yeah, Powerdyne can be had for under $1600 several reputable places online.

criticman · Feb 12, 2006

So, forgetting about which blower I get (although keep the opinions on that coming), if I am in the 6-9psi range, what size fuel pump and injectors do I need to step up to?

30# or 42#?

I know the lowest to go would be a 155lph pump, but would going up to 255lph be a better idea?

Also, are the stock fuel lines OKAY for the increased fuel delivery? The same question goes for the stock fuel rails. I've considered these from CHP.

criticman · Feb 12, 2006

Fuel injector and pump size calculations

I found a great article on Summit's site about picking the right size fuel injectors and pumps: http://www.summitracing.com/landing...{40BD2E7F-A55C-429C-A46A-11656EBE1B24}&Type=5 .

So, using the formulas on there.
Assuming 400 HP @ the crank after the blower (better to round up then not have enough fuel).

Injector lbs./hr. = horsepower x BFSC/number of cylinders
Injector lbs./hr. = 400 x 0.55/8
Injector lbs./hr. = 400 x 0.06875
Injector lbs./hr. = 27.5

So based on that I am going to order some 30# injectors unless someone says otherwise and gives a good reason for it.

Now for the fuel pump math...

horsepower x BFSC = pph
400 x .55 = 220pph
pph / 6 = gph
220 / 6 = 36.67 gph
from Google, 1 US gallons = 3.7854118 liters
so 36.67 gph x 3.7854118 L = 138.80 lph

So based on that I am going to order a 155 lph fuel pump (high pressure blower model) unless someone says otherwise and gives me a good reason for it

poneypower89 · Feb 12, 2006

criticman said:
I found a great article on Summit's site about picking the right size fuel injectors and pumps: http://www.summitracing.com/landing...{40BD2E7F-A55C-429C-A46A-11656EBE1B24}&Type=5 .

So, using the formulas on there.
Assuming 400 HP @ the crank after the blower (better to round up then not have enough fuel).

Injector lbs./hr. = horsepower x BFSC/number of cylinders
Injector lbs./hr. = 400 x 0.55/8
Injector lbs./hr. = 400 x 0.06875
Injector lbs./hr. = 27.5

So based on that I am going to order some 30# injectors unless someone says otherwise and gives a good reason for it.

Now for the fuel pump math...

horsepower x BFSC = pph
400 x .55 = 220pph
pph / 6 = gph
220 / 6 = 36.67 gph
from Google, 1 US gallons = 3.7854118 liters
so 36.67 gph x 3.7854118 L = 138.80 lph

So based on that I am going to order a 155 lph fuel pump (high pressure blower model) unless someone says otherwise and gives me a good reason for it

Fuel requirements for an N/A 300hp and a FI 300hp are dramatically different... a blower car needs much more fuel than an N/A car at the same hp level.

On top of this... using only 30lb injectors will not allow him to ditch the FMU (this only if he wants/needs to) He can run 30lbs and an FMU if this is the way he wants to go though. The fmu will just increase the fuel delivery via Pressure and push more fuel through the 30lb injector than it would normally.

I run an FMU with my blower... and havent had any problems.

criticman · Feb 12, 2006

That calculation IS for blower. If it were for N/A, the BFSC would be .45 instead of the .55.

And I was essentially answering my own question, so I am the "he" lol.

I am not sure the FMU is the route I want to go - especially since I am not locked in to a Vortech kit yet. Plus, are the FMU's configured to work with any size injector or do you get a particular FMU based on your injectors?

Also, poneypower89, how much boost do you have your SC-Trim putting out?

poneypower89 · Feb 12, 2006

criticman said:
That calculation IS for blower. If it were for N/A, the BFSC would be .45 instead of the .55.

And I was essentially answering my own question, so I am the "he" lol.

I am not sure the FMU is the route I want to go - especially since I am not locked in to a Vortech kit yet. Plus, are the FMU's configured to work with any size injector or do you get a particular FMU based on your injectors?

Also, poneypower89, how much boost do you have your SC-Trim putting out?

Sorry about that, I was only stating there is a difference between NA and SC... I didn't realize the chart was for SC.

Anyways, the FMU needs to be recaliburated for every injector size. If u run the 19# caliburation through 30# injectors the fuel pressure would be very high at WOT in full boost and you would run incredible rich. Does this make sense?

The kit will come with an FMU caliburated for 19# injectors. Vortech sells the recaliburation discs for some like 30 bucks. or an entire kit for like 50 which covers pretty much every size injector. You do not have to run out and buy a different FMU every time you upgrade the injector, just a recaliburation disc.

Im only running 6psi through my sc-trim. More boost to come this summer when the warranty on the blower runs out.

EDIT: I have to add that if your car is very far from stock when you strap on the blower and push alot of boost... its gonna need a proffesional tune anyways. In which case, you could just buy some 40+# injectors and ditch the FMU all together.

criticman · Feb 12, 2006

Yeah, that makes sense...if the FMU is trying to add in fuel thinking the injectors are tiny when they really aren't, flood of fuel!

Good to know that they have different discs.

Not TOO far from stock, but a decent way. Luckily the AFM PMS allows for awesome tuning and I found a local dyno tuner that will tune the 'stang when I boost it. I have a decent enough understanding with the unit to get the car running fairly smoothly after the upgrade until I can get to the dyno shop.

I know people hate the "how much power" question (I know I do), but I am interested in how much power, considering my present specs, the Vortech SC-Trim with either a UPR or AFM inlet pipe and AFM Mr. Freeze methanol injection would put me at. Last I dyno'd, prior to throttle body and intake manifold, was 216 rwhp 284 ft-lbs.

Rick 91GT · Feb 12, 2006

Get a 38#- 42# injector you can tune the settings with the PMS, and not have to worry about a FMU. I would use the 255lph pump personally.

With the blower at 8-10psi (which you may see with the additon of the PP) you should not have any issues putting up 380-400RWHP on your stock shortblock with the mods you have.

Ny Mustang Guy · Feb 12, 2006

Interesting info. Subscribing

Mostly stock. Which blower: Powerdyne, Paxton, Vortech?

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