My balancer doesn't go on like it did before

Nicoleb3x3 · May 6, 2009

I haven't put the seal in yet...I was waiting to take it off the stand for that
I also don't have any close up pictures of the rear main before anyways for reference.

there's something going on with the change over for the 1 pc fuel eccentric to the 2 pc....it's NOT common to have the 1 pc on the 87 engine....The Cloyes Set I puchased doesn't say 87 on their web site, but summit DOES....it's so strange -this overlap of this change at Ford-

I purchased this timing set 3 years ago...why didn't I have a problem then? Why is only the high end sets giving me trouble? I checked a gear at auto zone for a "cheap" set and it matches when I use the 1 pc fuel eccentric "old engines" description.

The cloyes set I have is now is # 9-3135

strtrcr50 · May 6, 2009

Whatever it is, this is not a common problem. I can't google up this happening to anyone else. Seeing as how the fuel pump eccentric bolts to the outside of the cam, I'm not sure why that would make for a different lower timing gear. It shouldn't make a difference

strtrcr50 · May 7, 2009

Nicoleb3x3 said:
there's something going on with the change over for the 1 pc fuel eccentric to the 2 pc....it's NOT common to have the 1 pc on the 87 engine....

I don't get it.. I haven't stripped down my shortblock quite that far yet, but why would you have ANY fuel pump eccentric on your motor? You do NOT have a mechanical fuel pump, so there would be no reason for a fuel pump eccentric. It doesn't need either a 1 or 2 piece eccentric..

95Vert383AOD · May 7, 2009

Yeah you don't need that off center lobe (eccentric) If you're going EFI. Not sure if you would need a washer under the bolt...but you don't need that funky lobe.

Will you be keeping the Caked Oil on your motor to protect the block against rust scale? But really i would take some degreaser to that and maybe wire brush it a lil...but thats me. Make her look Purdy!!! Also Scrape those water holes well!!!! dont want any reason for a leak...Lightly sand or wire wheel if ya need to!!! I like using a good painters scraper. Some kinda anti Seize on the bolt threads going into the holes for the water jacket would help. Also they sell bolt kits....Based on the rusty threads around the water holes i would say those bolts are eroded.

Chris

strtrcr50 · May 7, 2009

95Vert383AOD said:
Yeah you don't need that off center lobe (eccentric) If you're going EFI. Not sure if you would need a washer under the bolt...but you don't need that funky lobe.

Will you be keeping the Caked Oil on your motor to protect the block against rust scale? But really i would take some degreaser to that and maybe wire brush it a lil...but thats me. Make her look Purdy!!! Also Scrape those water holes well!!!! dont want any reason for a leak...Lightly sand or wire wheel if ya need to!!! I like using a good painters scraper. Some kinda anti Seize on the bolt threads going into the holes for the water jacket would help. Also they sell bolt kits....Based on the rusty threads around the water holes i would say those bolts are eroded.

Chris

I stole that pic off the intarwebz... Not my motor. Just wanted to show a picture of where the fuel pump eccentric was located and why it shouldn't make a difference on the crank gear of the timing set.

Nicoleb3x3 · May 7, 2009

I know the eccentric is not required with EFI, but ford used them for a reason...probably wanted to use up the inventory!

As far as "application" it's a FACT that the timing sets are different thickness gears, I know because comp cams told me this; AND I now have both kinds of sets and yes one gear is thinner on the 1 pc application vs the 2 pc. it likely has nothing to do with the eccentric itself, but probably clearence with the cam thrust plate? I don't know...but they have 2 different spec timing sets for some stupid reason.

I don't know, but based on the prvious posted picture vs mine...do I have the 2 pc eccentric but missing the outter piece?
if so...then my head definately hurts now.

Basically I'm told this is not a real problem and I should just bolt the stupid thing up and move on.

strtrcr50 · May 7, 2009

That I don't know. I'll try to get a look at my motor on the stand and see what it looks like.

Nicoleb3x3 · May 7, 2009

after some studying of the new cam pully, the 1 pc eccentric installs center and the 2 pc installs "lop sided"

SO; if I DO have the 2 pc type...why is the sprockets thicker? I guess this is "ok" then? and NORMAL?

So...now that I have already purchased the timing set that I feel works better thickness wise, can I install this set even though it's made for the 1 pc eccentric? The summit site says 68-01, that's impossible!? If i check cloyes directly, they say pre-84 years only?

What does it matter? I like the cloyes better, but it may not even be ok to use on the 2 pc eccentric engine? WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT FOR ME, WHAT'S WORSE? A closer thickness vs not supposed to go on this year 302 vs a too thick of a gear on the correct engine? The cloyes set is higher quality...I'd hate to return it. It's a 100 set vs a 38 dollars set from comp cams

strtrcr50 · May 9, 2009

So, what did you end up doing?

Nicoleb3x3 · May 9, 2009

well, the point I'm at now is:

1. I beleive it's NORMAL to have thicker sprockets when using higher performance timing sets
2. Higher performance timing sets require an aftermarket balancer with alignment spacers to acheive proper belt alignment

so.....I'm putting the comp cams unit back on...and getting an aftermarket balancer
I'll see how this turns out...and I'll be sure to post the results

I just can't beleive 2 weeks ....and nobody could say a stock profile balancer isn't going to work on a stock chain, I guess many people woudn't use the stock balancer if they went through the trouble of getting a high perfomance chain? lol, I guess I can buy into this; we'll see what an an aftermarket balancer has for alignment shims.

Here's the ONLY resulting search to help point me in the right direction:
http://www.jeselonline.com/docs/instructions/INS-34061,%20Ford%20belt%20drive%20balancer%20notice.pdf

Nicoleb3x3 · May 18, 2009

ok, I've been waiting for a new balancer to arrive and it finally arrives today.

I check the balancer is the same exact depth as my existing one with the spacer provided. In the instructions it goes on to say additional spacers are available for proper pully alignment.

So; what I received with this spacer is matching the stock dampner I was using at 3.95" depth.

A note says engines equipped with ford racing crank sprocket .917" are originally equipped with balancer depth of 3.875"

So....I go back and measure my comp cams crank sprocket...and yes it's .912" or so (my calipers are kinda broken, so I'll assume it's .917)

AND SO....I compare the overall balancer I had/have is 3.95" minus the balancer I should be using for the .917 sprocket size...is a difference of 0.075"

my original sprocket is .84" (give or take a few thou) and if I add .075" I get .915"!!!

SOOOOOOO....I need to just buy the alternative spacer to make up this .075" difference..and thus THAT IS WHAT MY GAP IS ALL ABOUT!

YAY!

recap:
comp cams sprocket is .075" thicker than the sprocket that came off my car
I purchased 80046 balancer and it came with 81007 spacer

spacer and balancer info:
Small Block Ford Balancer & Pulley Spacers

quote from the spacer description:
this spacer must be used when replacing an original balancer that is 3-7/8" long which were typically found on '80 and earlier 351W Ford racing HO engines or '80 and later 351W, 302, or 5.0L engines using the Ford Racing .917" crank sprocket.

rd · May 19, 2009

I don't have dimensions, but yes, this is a common, small block Ford isssue. I ran into it with my 79 Capri a long time ago, when I learned the difference between one pc and two pc fuel pump drive eccentrics, with different length cam dowels, etc.

There are at least two sbf timing chain thicknesses, etc. And several balancer depths and dimensions. You do need to be careful with different front covers.

I solved the timing chain problem by using Ford Racing timing sets. Then I got a Fluidamper and needed a March spacer to get the pulleys to line up.

I am using a 68 block, a 78 crank and rods, with 94 Lightning truck heads, a 79 front cover, single pc fuel pump drive and a Comp XE 256 flat tappet cam. Yep,it all works.

This all can be worked out. Wait until you get to valve stem lengths, valve springs and keepers.....

My balancer doesn't go on like it did before

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