need advice with a 1970 351W DOOE heads

jostang50. · Mar 29, 2009

i have a question with these heads and advice also. Would this head work on 302 EFI and how much horse power is to be expected with these head or should i just get a GT40P, which heads would work better.

My mods right now are edelbrock upper and lower intake, 70mm egr and throttle body,70 mass air calibrated to 19# inj. cai intake (inside the fender), e303 cam, shorty headers, 2 1/2 h-pipe no cats, flowmaster exhaust, 5 speed tranny with 373 rear, 50-50 shocks rear, 4cyl spring in rear, rear upper and lower control arm.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Mar 29, 2009

Well....back in the day (like back before the GT40/GT40P heads were ever used on stock engines), the '69-70 351 heads were THE junkyard head to get, unless you could get your hands on some 289 HiPo heads. The one down side to these heads right off the bat is the combustion chambers are 60cc (actually like 60.1 or something like that) which won't provide much compression. If you had them milled down to 58cc or so, they'd be pretty nice.

Now...my car has '69 C90E heads...mine are ported/polished quite well, and have 1.94/1.60 valves. They went 12.8 in the 1/4 and probably would've gone at least 12.5 with more traction, and right now they're making 362hp/364tq on a 347. They're making pretty impressive power, but the magic is in the port work which changes everything and means you have to spend money to get there.

As for the GT40/P heads, i personally would take those over unported Windsor heads, for a couple reasons. First, smaller chambers means a tad more compression. Second, they flow just as good (arguably better but we're splitting hairs here). Third, right out of the junkyard you would actually need to replace the valve guides in the Windsor heads because they ran on leaded gas (lead was used in gas as a lubricant, and without it you'll burn up the guides) and you wouldn't need to do this with the GT40s. Lastly, they're just easier to find if you ever cracked a head or damaged one and needed a replacement. Out of the two, i would opt for P heads out of the two, but remember there's the issue with the headers and spark plug angles so keep that in mind.

Oh and one last tidbit, with the GT40s you can use stock rockers...the Windsors are stud mount so you'll have to buy new rockers and likely new valve covers to clear them. Also the Windsors use pushrod guide plates, which means you'll have to buy hardened pushrods to use them.

KamiKaziDK · Mar 29, 2009

E7 heads have 62-64cc chambers, so you're still getting improved compression.

jostang50. · Mar 29, 2009

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
Well....back in the day (like back before the GT40/GT40P heads were ever used on stock engines), the '69-70 351 heads were THE junkyard head to get, unless you could get your hands on some 289 HiPo heads. The one down side to these heads right off the bat is the combustion chambers are 60cc (actually like 60.1 or something like that) which won't provide much compression. If you had them milled down to 58cc or so, they'd be pretty nice.

Now...my car has '69 C90E heads...mine are ported/polished quite well, and have 1.94/1.60 valves. They went 12.8 in the 1/4 and probably would've gone at least 12.5 with more traction, and right now they're making 362hp/364tq on a 347. They're making pretty impressive power, but the magic is in the port work which changes everything and means you have to spend money to get there.

As for the GT40/P heads, i personally would take those over unported Windsor heads, for a couple reasons. First, smaller chambers means a tad more compression. Second, they flow just as good (arguably better but we're splitting hairs here). Third, right out of the junkyard you would actually need to replace the valve guides in the Windsor heads because they ran on leaded gas (lead was used in gas as a lubricant, and without it you'll burn up the guides) and you wouldn't need to do this with the GT40s. Lastly, they're just easier to find if you ever cracked a head or damaged one and needed a replacement. Out of the two, i would opt for P heads out of the two, but remember there's the issue with the headers and spark plug angles so keep that in mind.

Oh and one last tidbit, with the GT40s you can use stock rockers...the Windsors are stud mount so you'll have to buy new rockers and likely new valve covers to clear them. Also the Windsors use pushrod guide plates, which means you'll have to buy hardened pushrods to use them.

the one i'm trying to buy is already ported, 3 angle valve job, 2.02 int/ 1.60 ex., 0 miles, but i want to know if its worth buying. i just want to make sure the combo is right.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Mar 30, 2009

jostang50. said:
the one i'm trying to buy is already ported, 3 angle valve job, 2.02 int/ 1.60 ex., 0 miles, but i want to know if its worth buying. i just want to make sure the combo is right.

Well...how much? I scored mine for $260 but they had a bent exhaust valve in each head. The thing you have to think about is how well are they ported and were they done RIGHT? Anyone can take a grinder to heads and even make it look good....but there's more to porting than hogging out the runners. Another thing you have to remember is that a 2.02 valve won't work with stock pistons....don't know what you're planning but keep that in mind. To be honest i bought mine completely not knowing what to expect. I figured that around here GT40P's go for about $200-250 a set and everyone knows about the 3 or 4 bars cast into the front of the head to tell if they're 40s or P's, and i wanted to do something different and have a head that looks bone stock on the outside. Plus i figured with 1.94 intake valves they should flow better than P's even with a so-so port job.

When i took mine to get the valves done, i took them to a local guy who has a good reputation for his work and has been doing heads and machine work for decades. I asked him to just flat out be honest about the port work and to tell me if it was even worth getting new valves. He looked them over and said that for hand porting they were very impressive and had a lot of hours put into them...so take that as you will. Maybe if you can get pics of the ones you wanna buy and compare them that might help.

Here's pics fresh from the machine shop:

jostang50. · Mar 30, 2009

so these wont work with stock motor, being 2.02 valves. i'm on a budget on getting a heads right now and it seems like people are saying i'm better off with a GT40p heads or if i can save more money then get the TFS or AFR heads. I just dont want to waiste my money and something that wont work. I appreciate your help, i guess i will be in a market for a GT40 P for now.

KamiKaziDK · Mar 30, 2009

I was thinking the same thing when you said 2.02 valves that they probably wouldn't fit. Keep in mind if you pass on them and get P heads, you're gonna need custom P headers that will set you back another 200 or so dollars. You might want to just be patient and put aside money till you find a set of good used aluminum heads or standard gt40s

85_SS_302_Coupe · Mar 31, 2009

I wouldn't spend a fortune on the Windsor heads even ported because if you're gonna spend anywhere near $500 on those heads, you can just save up a few hundred more and be patient and find something aluminum for that price. My heads are working out good for my combo, but if i had played it different i could have some used Twisted Wedge or AFR 165's for what i have in them. Plus you're taking a huge gamble with the port work being good work or just someone hogging them out with a grinder. Also as already stated the 2.02 valves won't clear the stock valve reliefs unless you go through the huge task of notching them. So yeah, my advice would be either 1) go with P heads and either get Mac shorties for P heads or Mac full length headers since they clear the spark plugs, or 2) save up and buy some nice used aluminum heads. If you come across regular GT40's for a good price, don't pass them up just because they're not P's...the difference isn't really that big of a deal to pass on them, and you won't have to use special headers with them.

jostang50. · Apr 1, 2009

your right, its not worth it. i think im just going to get a new gt40p for 399 pr and the headers for now. thanks for your advice.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Apr 2, 2009

Now see....for $400 plus the price you'll spend on the right headers...i would recommend looking into Thumper E7's. I can't quote an exact price but i think they're in the neighborhood of $600 and i believe they'll out perform stock P's, and you won't have to spend money on headers, and i believe depending on how you order them they come with better valve springs than the P's will come with (if you decide to run any kind of decent cam with P heads you NEED to upgrade the springs).

Thumper of Orange Park

jostang50. · Apr 2, 2009

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
Now see....for $400 plus the price you'll spend on the right headers...i would recommend looking into Thumper E7's. I can't quote an exact price but i think they're in the neighborhood of $600 and i believe they'll out perform stock P's, and you won't have to spend money on headers, and i believe depending on how you order them they come with better valve springs than the P's will come with (if you decide to run any kind of decent cam with P heads you NEED to upgrade the springs).

Thumper of Orange Park

i went to thumper's site and check it out. $600 is not bad and they claimed thier heads can run low 12. thats pretty good. i might be just getting that, just waiting and see if i can get a use AFR for aroung 700. Thanks again.

jostang50. · Apr 3, 2009

i found this also for the same price of thumper.

Ford GT40P Remanufactured

289/302/
60cc Combustion Chamber
Pedastall Type Rockers Used
Positive Oil Control Seals
5 Angle Valve Job
Stainless 1 Piece Swirl-Polished Under-Cut Stems 1.940” Intake Valves
Stainless 1 Piece Swirl-Polished Under-Cut Stems 1.540” Exhaust Valves
AWSF-32C Spark Plug
Springs Good to .550” Lift, (Hyd. Roller) *check cam manufactures specs for compatibility*
(129 psi @ 1.800” / 280 psi @ 1.300”)

need advice with a 1970 351W DOOE heads

jostang50.

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85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

KamiKaziDK

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it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

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85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

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