Need help talking to my machine shop about engine work

[mob]

Hey guys. I am looking to soon take my engine to a machine shop to get cleaned up. What I want to do is pull the engine, dissasemble it, and hand everything over to them.

But I dont know what to tell them to do. Obviously I want them to clean it up and hot tank the block.

I would like to assemble the short block by myself, but I have never gone past the heads, so I will be doing this with your guys help and my knowledge and thats about it.
I am probably going to get the block bored .30 over but what else should I tell them to do? I am going to be on a tight budget, so I am not looking to spend over 400 total. What should I tell them to do? Should I have them install any of the bearings?

I dont want to just hand over the block and pick it up and pay a bill, I want to tell them what to do, get a quote, and then drop it off on that agreed quote. But I am not sure of all the little things that are in the engine, like the seals, and bearings, and I am not sure what I can and cannot do myself, so any help on what I should have them do would be great. I definitely do not want to pick up the block and find out later I have to take it back to them to do something else.

I would rather get the parts myself because I can get most of the parts from my work 20% off, like all the seals, and bearings.

I am also gonna get new pistons, and have them balance the whole rotating assembly. Any help would be great, I want to call them and get a quote, but I need to know what to tell them first. Thanks.

 

[Strippt88]

Need a little more info, what you have is stock original? And, whatcha going to do with it? You may not need to bore anything, 5.0's of the injected sort don't score the walls much- unless you want to. But the application is important in the process.

 

[allballsmustang]

i dont know about where your at but I can tell you from personal experience I doubt many shops will press new pistons onto your rods, tank and bore the block, freeze out plugs and cam bearings, check rod and main clearances so you know if those need to be cut, and balance the rotating assembly for 400?

While those are all things that I would definately do while its apart, i think you may have to choke up a little more cash, also get really good head gaskets.

Jim

 

[Turd Tops]

To save yourself some money remove everything from the block. Freeze plugs, caps and stuff like that. Leave nothing on the block at all. If you don't have a cam bearing tool you might have to have them remove those and reinstall new ones. I would just have them bore it "and use boring block" I think thats what there called. If your going to put the short block together yourself you could even try to hone it yourself but if you really don't know what your doing let them do it.

 

[mob]

Sorry, I am planning on using stock internals and just new pistons. Sorry I didnt specify, but I am not including getting the rotating assembly balanced in that 400 total. If I dont have to get the block bored I wont but i am going to be getting new pistons anyways because I need to lower my compression and I want to go forged for boost.

Can I put the pistons in myself? Will I have to assemble it and then take it back to them to have them check the rod and main clearance? I'd like them to do the block work first, and then bring them the rotating assembly to balance it later.

Can I remove and install the cam bearings myself? I dont mind buying some tools to do some work.

What if I just got it honed, used the rest of the stock parts, and just got new pistons, would they still have to check the rod and main clearance?

 

[Chuckman]

Sorry, I am planning on using stock internals and just new pistons. Sorry I didnt specify, but I am not including getting the rotating assembly balanced in that 400 total. If I dont have to get the block bored I wont but i am going to be getting new pistons anyways because I need to lower my compression and I want to go forged for boost.

Can I put the pistons in myself? Will I have to assemble it and then take it back to them to have them check the rod and main clearance? I'd like them to do the block work first, and then bring them the rotating assembly to balance it later.

Can I remove and install the cam bearings myself? I dont mind buying some tools to do some work.

What if I just got it honed, used the rest of the stock parts, and just got new pistons, would they still have to check the rod and main clearance?

you WILL want a balance job with new pistons, even more so with boost. if you have access to a press, you should be able to press the pins out and in of the rods for your pistons, may have to find the right fixturing though (i had my machine shop press em for me when i dropped it off for balance, minimal charge)

cam bearings you should be able to do yourself, i think o'reillys rents the tool to do it.

you can check the bearing clearances yourself with a bit of plastigauge, but it wouldnt hurt to have a quick line hone done on the mains if you can swing it. also polish the crank too (something you can do yourself)

i just went through this process, once i figured out that one of my injector connectors was fubar ive had no problems. you will spend more than 400 total between a rebuild kit and machine work though unless you know somebody.

 

[Turd Tops]

Sorry, I am planning on using stock internals and just new pistons. Sorry I didnt specify, but I am not including getting the rotating assembly balanced in that 400 total. If I dont have to get the block bored I wont but i am going to be getting new pistons anyways because I need to lower my compression and I want to go forged for boost.

Can I put the pistons in myself? Will I have to assemble it and then take it back to them to have them check the rod and main clearance? I'd like them to do the block work first, and then bring them the rotating assembly to balance it later.

Can I remove and install the cam bearings myself? I dont mind buying some tools to do some work.

What if I just got it honed, used the rest of the stock parts, and just got new pistons, would they still have to check the rod and main clearance?

You can check the rod and mains yourself by using plastic gauge "or something like that". You can also do the cam bearinging yourself. you just punch the old ones out and install the new ones but make sure you have the oil holes lined up to the holes in the block. Have them check the bore and see if it even needs to be bored. If not just hone it and leave it alone. You can also install the piston yourself if you mic them 1st and fine the best fit to each cylinder. mic each piston 6 times. start from the top and work down in 3 stops. turn the piston 90 degrees and mic it again. take those measurements and find the average. Do the same to the block and fit each piston to the best fitting cylinder. Then all you need them to do is hang those pistons on the rod that was in that cylinder. Mark the rods before you disassemble the block so you can re-intall them in the same place. Does any of that make sense?

 

[mob]

Thanks chuck, and turd (haha) that made sense, I have a mic too. Chuck I remember your post about when you got your engine back. The 400 I was talking about is just machine work, not including price to balance or parts.

I guess I will have them clean up the block and hone it at minimum. And try to do the rest myself. I have a friend of my fathers at my disposal that will be able to help me if it is a must. I really just want to avoid making multiple trips to the machine shop with the engine.

Oh hey chuck when you say press the pins out and in of the rods for the pistons, what exactly are those pins? I've never been inside so i am not familiar with the little parts. I can have them do that without the block right?

 

[Chuckman]

Oh hey chuck when you say press the pins out and in of the rods for the pistons, what exactly are those pins? I've never been inside so i am not familiar with the little parts. I can have them do that without the block right?

the wrist pins are what attach the piston to the rod. theyre like an axle basically, and the let the piston/rod rotated relative to each other. they use and interfence/press fit into the small end of the rod. the shop wont need the block to do this.

micing the pistons is a good idea if you have a 4" mic, not everyone has one as they're expensive (ebay is youre friend though, i got one for work for like $20). it is not necessary though.

 

[Foxfan88]

If you on a budget, i'd just tear the engine down. If the cylinder walls are in good shape. you could get away with just a nice honing and reuse the stock pistons and rods. mic the crank and get and idea of what bearings sizes you need. if the engine never gave you and problems and was well maintained and always had good oiling. you may be able to use stock bearing sizes.

give the block to the shop and i would have them obviously clean it up, hone it perhaps (honing is easy you can do it yourself). new freeze plugs (also can be some yourself easily) only thing i would have them do is install cam bearings, you may be able to get away without changing them, but they are cheap.

since your going to be running a turbo and a slighty hopped up motor. You shouldnt have any problem pushing the limits of the stock block. Knowing that i wouldnt get too extreme with building the shortblock, just to possibly blow it up later.

Build it cheap now, get it running and save cash and build the BAD motor over time saving up cash to build it.

 

[Turd Tops]

I would have them do is install cam bearings, you may be able to get away without changing them

The shop will NOT hot tank a block with cam bearings still installed. If your going to have them hot tank it the block you WILL need new cam bearings.

 

[old_blue]

everything has to be out of the block to hot tank it. $400 on just the engine machine work sounds totally reasonable. I would find a respectable shop (either through friends or reputation) and tell them:
1. what you are looking for
2. it is your first build (a good shop will provide tips and what not. car guy shops anyways will not lead you down the wrong path)
3. ask them for different quotes for different amounts of work.

most can quote you a price from the top of their heads for certain work and what they can take off for certain things. for installing things like cam bearings or freeze plugs you will see they are fairly cheap when it comes down to it and IMO worth paying it to dave the hassle later on.

 

[mob]

Thanks guys. Hey foxfan is it difficult to figure out what size bearing I am going to need? I can get sealed power bearings from my work for 20% off so I want to get as much as I can there.

Should I stick with the hyper pistons or should I atleast go forged. I obviously know forged would be better, but will the block go before the pistons? I am going to be tuning with a quarterhorse. If I just hone the block will I be able to use standard size everything?

 

[Chuckman]

Thanks guys. Hey foxfan is it difficult to figure out what size bearing I am going to need? I can get sealed power bearings from my work for 20% off so I want to get as much as I can there.

Should I stick with the hyper pistons or should I atleast go forged. I obviously know forged would be better, but will the block go before the pistons? I am going to be tuning with a quarterhorse. If I just hone the block will I be able to use standard size everything?

i just went with standard sized bearings when i did mine, my crank still miced out to factory tolerances. with just a polish, those should work for you too, but when you tear it apart, if the crank needs to get ground, then you'll need a different bearing size. i have the factory service manual somewhere if you need the specs.

definitly go with the forged pistons, the hypers wont like the boost as well. not saying they'll die before the block, but the cost difference is minimal if any. i went with the sealed power kit from summit, works fine so far (though i havent driven my much yet since the rebuild, about 120 miles so far before i put a nice hole in my radiator, long story).

 

[90lxcoupe]

Dont be shocked if the machine shop quotes you a price and it costs you extra money, alot of times things come up that nobody expects. Chances are that they will want to see what you have before the quote, also, how do the cylinder walls look, is there any scaring? If there in good shape you can get by with a hone, but you may need a bore done dependin on thier condition

 

[mob]

The cylinder walls look pretty good but are building a little surface rust form the moisture, should I put the heads back on to prevent that or will it not be a big deal when i get it honed?

 

[old_blue]

shouldnt be a big deal once they are honed. if they start to pit you may have issues just dont let them sit too long like that. atleast spray on some wd-40 or something to keep the rust out.

 

[89stang1]

Dont be shocked if the machine shop quotes you a price and it costs you extra money, alot of times things come up that nobody expects. Chances are that they will want to see what you have before the quote, also, how do the cylinder walls look, is there any scaring? If there in good shape you can get by with a hone, but you may need a bore done dependin on thier condition

+1 It adds up quick but then again its the last place u want to skimp, once u start to build ur engine up u want to feel good about your bottom end. Talk to rick from RNH P. he takes alot of pride building bottom ends little things he does like modifies oil passages for better flow etc. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BUILD