Need help w/ Finding Invoice

Jaxxnate25 · Oct 20, 2004

Wondering if someone could help me...Does anyone know a website where I can get the 05 Mustang GT Invoice price. I want some ammo when I go in to the dealership if I decide to buy. I'd like to walk into a dealer with a hard copy. No way I am paying over MSRP, or even right at MSRP. I head a dealer in Kansas or something was only charging $50 over invoice...

Please help....

Thanks,

Nathan

05 'Stang · Oct 20, 2004

Jaxxnate25 said:
Wondering if someone could help me...Does anyone know a website where I can get the 05 Mustang GT Invoice price. I want some ammo when I go in to the dealership if I decide to buy. I'd like to walk into a dealer with a hard copy. No way I am paying over MSRP, or even right at MSRP. I head a dealer in Kansas or something was only charging $50 over invoice...

Please help....

Thanks,

Nathan

No offense to everyone who thinks certain dealers are charging $50 over invoice. Give your head a shake! Car dealers do not make money that way. They may say that's what their price is, but rest assured, its not. But I'll bet it gets you into their store for a look huh?

As an actual dealer, without saying anything I shouldn't, there is generally a 6-10% mark-up from invoice to MSRP. So maybe that will help.

As for anyone who paid over MSRP, you guys are either crazy or real die-hard stang fans. And you just gave the owner of the business an early Christmas present.

wjlane · Oct 20, 2004

After I test drove a GT today I told the salesman he would not give me the deal I want. Of course he said he could work with me. YEAH RIGHT! The lowest they would go is $1,000 OVER MSRP! Like I said, you wouldn't give me the deal I want. They lost their damn mind. The car will cost the dealer the same amount 6 months from now. I guess it's all about market value and not customer satisfaction for some.

Irv · Oct 20, 2004

Doesn't the "build your ford" website show the invoice? or is that a "fake" invoice price?

spectravp · Oct 20, 2004

Irv said:
Doesn't the "build your ford" website show the invoice? or is that a "fake" invoice price?

I looked there before and didn't see any invoice prices. If there is a number there, it cannot be a fake for legal reasons. They can be sued for "gross misrepresentation."

05mealready · Oct 20, 2004

I ran the price for GT at the Ford site yesterday. When I printed it the invoice price also printed. But the invoice price was not on the screen when I was viewing it. So give that try.

BTW, I ordered my "05" 140A for $50 over invoice. Louisburgh Ford in Kansas.

wjlane · Oct 20, 2004

The invoice on Ford's website includes dealer holdback which should be deducted also. I've found the holdback on the '05 to be about 3.5%. Here is the link to the pricing sheet that was released. It shows you MSRP and dealer invoice with and without holdback.

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=93014

Irv · Oct 20, 2004

Well, when I "built" mine at the ford website, my invoice price was right underneath MSRP every step of the way. I don't know anything about "holdback" so I can't comment on that.

wjlane · Oct 20, 2004

Here's a definition from Edmunds.com:

Dealer holdback is a percentage of either the MSRP or invoice price of a new vehicle (depending on the manufacturer) that is repaid to the dealer by the manufacturer. The holdback is designed to supplement the dealer's cash flow and indirectly reduce "variable sales expenses" (code words for sales commissions) by artificially elevating the dealership's paper cost.

Contrary to what some consumer think, the holdback itself can't really be used as a bargaining chip. However, knowing about it might help you get a better deal on a new car. How? Well, first here's a little background:

Dealerships must have an inventory on hand so that consumers can browse and ultimately select a vehicle. Dealerships must pay for this inventory when it is obtained from the manufacturer, and the amount it pays is the price reflected on the invoice from the manufacturer to the dealer, the so-called "invoice price."

Now the twist: with the introduction of holdbacks some years ago, most manufacturers inflated the invoice prices for every vehicle by a predetermined amount (2-3% of MSRP is typical). The dealer pays that inflated amount when it buys the car from the manufacturer. But later, at predetermined times (usually quarterly), the manufacturer reimburses the dealer for that excess amount. This is the "holdback," so named because funds are "held back" by the manufacturer and released only some time after the vehicle is invoiced to the dealership.

davmacdon · Oct 20, 2004

I work at a dealership and we really don't make as much as you would think on a car. Yes when new models come out we get sticker price and sometimes more but after about 6 months those people that will pay sticker have done so and the price drops a lot. We are in a competative market and will use every rebate you can think of and use up our factory holdback and only make $200 yes $200 on a $30,000 car. The money is made in service. You will bring your car in for warranty repair and we will make way more over the life of the warranty and after the warranty is over you will still probably come to us as well.

I know its hard but wait 6 months, after the demand drops dealers will do about anything to get rid of them.

OSU05stangfan · Oct 21, 2004

davmacdon said:
I work at a dealership and we really don't make as much as you would think on a car. Yes when new models come out we get sticker price and sometimes more but after about 6 months those people that will pay sticker have done so and the price drops a lot. We are in a competative market and will use every rebate you can think of and use up our factory holdback and only make $200 yes $200 on a $30,000 car. The money is made in service. You will bring your car in for warranty repair and we will make way more over the life of the warranty and after the warranty is over you will still probably come to us as well.

I know its hard but wait 6 months, after the demand drops dealers will do about anything to get rid of them.

i find it hard to believe that at a traditional dealership, the salesman only makes $200, especially on a car that is bought at MSRP. That's at least $1,500 over invoice, I know the salesman doesnt get all of that, but it's surely more than $200.

Question. If a car is sold at MSRP, what percentage of that goes to the salesmans pocket?

M1Rifle · Oct 21, 2004

Invoice is set by Ford. MSRP is set by Ford, both are very well known numbers.

build your own car at www.cudirect.com or through your favorite credit union and you will see both prices.

cleveland_c4 · Oct 21, 2004

Have you ever thought of just asking to see the invoice on the car? I believe that they have to show you or you can take your business to the BBB.

But if you are lazy....

Dealer invoice on my vehicle was $27312.11 according to the paperwork supplied by the salesman. Retail (MSRP) would have been $29695. I actually am a legit X plan too since Im a friend of the family who kinda owns the dealership. A/Z/D plans would have been priced at $26219.11 but there would be no chance at that for me.

BTW, dealer invoice on the Premium GT is $23489.

davmacdon · Oct 21, 2004

OSU05stangfan said:
i find it hard to believe that at a traditional dealership, the salesman only makes $200, especially on a car that is bought at MSRP. That's at least $1,500 over invoice, I know the salesman doesnt get all of that, but it's surely more than $200.

Question. If a car is sold at MSRP, what percentage of that goes to the salesmans pocket?

If a salesmen can get more out of the car the dealership is happy. But to move inventory, cars will be sold for pretty much no markup. The salesmen will get what is called a mini. This money does not come from the car deal itself. It is a different fund for rainy days so to speak. It varies from dealer to dealer but is from 180-200 dollars. There also might be a spif on a car that has been around to long to get rid of it.(maybe 500 dollars)

To answer your question about MSRP a salesmen will get around 25-30 percent of the gross. That does not include the dealers holdback. If purchase price is 25,000 and invoice is 24,000 the salesmen will make 250-300 dollars.

We have salesmen who sell 20 cars a month. Not to bad of a living. There are also spifs for selling over 10 and over 20 cars from the manufacturer and the dealer.

And don't forget the F & I office there you will get the opertunity to buy a loan, gap insurance, credit life insurance, extended warranty and auto insurance.

If you go into the dealership with all of your ducks in a row then you will be fine. But there is always the extras to buy. Just stick to your guns and walk out a few times if you need to. The dealership wants to sell you a car wheather its for a 3000 profit or a 300 profit.

WAIT 6 MONTHS FOR THE MUSTANGS TO GO DOWN!!!!

93 teal terror · Oct 21, 2004

Before the internet and everything was electronic, if you went into your dealer and asked to see the invoice you would get one of 3 or 4 different ones. Illegal?.....yup. did it happen?....yup

wjlane · Oct 21, 2004

Thanks for the info davmacdon. I intend to wait it out for the prices to go down and even then I am willing to walk away unless I get the deal I want. I am still considering an '04 Cobra. I wonder how much they will drop in price. I heard some dealers taking 28k on a new '04 Cobra and ford has a $2500 rebate in effect.

davmacdon · Oct 21, 2004

wjlane said:
Thanks for the info davmacdon. I intend to wait it out for the prices to go down and even then I am willing to walk away unless I get the deal I want. I am still considering an '04 Cobra. I wonder how much they will drop in price. I heard some dealers taking 28k on a new '04 Cobra and ford has a $2500 rebate in effect.

I think I am going to get rid of my 94 GT Vert and a few other toys over the next 6 months and probably get an 05 GT.

I work for my familys GM dealership and own all fords. Not the best subject at family gatherings. hehe

When the hype runs out the dealers will just want to move iron. Remember everything is numbers. The dealer gets rewards ($) from the factory for moving product just like the salesmen do. Dealers really do sell at a few hundred above cost, its just a game of who can hold out longer.

Lord_Lunacy · Dec 25, 2004

Sup yall, new to the boards. I had a 99 GT that I passed on to my brother, to replace the car I purchased an 04 WRX STI. I know what some of you will be saying, why post here. I'm going to be purchasing an 05 Stang as well. It's the need to have my Import and Domestic.

Anywho, I got the STI for 100 over invoice with a good list of options by making the dealers battle each other for my business. I waited about 8 months after they were released. Now mind you, I've heard of some folks paying as much as 10 grand over the MSRP of 32k. I wound up picking my car up in NJ from Liberty Jeep/Subaru, I live in VA.

Davmacdon is right about waiting it out. They will definitely be dying to get rid of the cars after they've taken up some time on the lots. As Of now I'm set to purchase a GT by February. By then dealers should be more open to invoice or below.

Need help w/ Finding Invoice

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