Need help with valve springs and locks!

[stanger1993]

Hey guys I just picked up Crane Cams 44308-1 springs/locks/retainers for my gt40 irons non "P" heads and ran them down to the machine shop. The builder sent me back with them because it came with some silver locks and some smaller black locks. He threw them together at first and didnt like what he saw..he said the black locks wernt making sense and the rocker would hit the retainer.
Has anyone else used this kit and can explain it to me so i can relay it to him. I know some of the other sets like the trickflow come with offset retainers. I was thinking silver locks for the exhaust side and black for intake..the grooves are at different height so thats all i could come up with. Any help would be appreciated. I'm about to order what he recommended from comp cams..I hate this run around. He didnt feel comfortable with the different size locks and conical springs.

Crane Cams 44308-1 - Crane Valve Spring and Retainer Kits - summitracing.com is what i ordered..

 

[347HO]

What did the install heights come out to be?

 

[stanger1993]

He didnt say. He had one of the heads done and said it was checked and good to go and he had used all silver locks. He went on to start with the other head and grabbed the springs and locks from the box and realized they were the black shorter locks.. checked the heights and they were off. He called a few people and they couldnt come up with anything. They suggested one be for the intake and one for exhaust but that didnt work out either. He told me to return them and buy the comp set. He said he used comp kit everytime and they always come out perfect. I dunno...Its not really a huge deal buying the other comp set but thats gonna take more time and money. I know tons of people use the crane kit and usually need shims but from what I understood the height was gonna be too tall..

 

[347HO]

I'm not familiar with the P/N set you have, but I am familiar with using different keepers and retainers to come up with the correct install height.
Make sure you don't have two sets of retainers and obviously you have two sets of keepers.
I suggest you personally call Crane and get the "scoop" what you have in your hands.

Achieving your install height is #1 priority.

Rocker tip to valvestem geometry is #2.

Rocker radius clearance off the retainer is #3.

 

[rd]

I have not used the Crane kit, but I went through some valvespring escapades with Comp Cams. Their tech guy had exactly the right advice.

I have two sets of GT40 irons. One set was a new in box set from SVO. Apparently they have the intake and exhaust setup with the same spring and installed height. I think then you use the same retainers and locks on all the valves.

On my other set, which came from a 94 Lightning truck, the exahaust valves had the rotators on them stock, and the valve lock groove is at a different height on the valve.

So Comp sold me different retainers and locks for the intake and exhaust. I don't remember but the retainters may be the same, but the little keepers or locks were different, with the lip at differentl heights.

This let us set all the valves at the same installed height

You may have that set of locks and not need them. You may want to check the description of the Crane part numbers if you can find a way to do it. Check the height of the groove in the valve stem on intakes and exhausts to see if they are different.

Best way is to figure out what the springs should be set at and either call Comp or have your machine shop guy get the right set of locks.

 

[347HO]

1.940" per Crane Cams...

What length pushrods are you using?

 

[stanger1993]

Hmm interesting. I checked the heads and they arnt the lightning heads. They actually came off of a early model explorer. I've tried calling crane numerous times but when i dial "5" for valve train tech help I get nothing...nobody ever comes to the phone or its not working right. I checked into the comp springs and what not and it seems a little complicated...too much for a valve train novice like me to figure out. Their tech guys are great but I wasnt fully understanding everything. I decided to give the trickflow kit Trick Flow Specialties TFS-2500100 - Trick Flow® Valve Spring Upgrade Kits - summitracing.com a try. Its got a 1.800 install height which should dispell my builders worries and comes with a set of offset keepers for the exhaust and intake. I really appreciate your help. I'm still gonna figure this out and post my findings. I tend to think the extra locks might be for the truck heads as was suggested. We'll see. I will be using stock length 6.272 fms hardened pushrods. I will double check the length but from my research i've been doing all other similiar builds were using stock length.

 

[347HO]

Crane Cams is "no" longer. They are gone, and may be the reason you get no Tech.

You're install height should match what your camshaft and rocker ratio require. Just make sure your installer knows this... is aware of all these things. I don't mean to talk bad about anyone, but my first impression is he/she is not very experienced with valvetrain setup???
Again, no bashing... just want you to have a reliable setup.

 

[stanger1993]

Thats was also my first impression when he told me of this issue. I know tons of users here have used the crane kit but I figured I couldnt argue with 35 years of experience. He said that he doesnt see those heads often and just didnt feel comfortable putting the kit together and not fully understanding all the components. He acted like he was certain the rocker wouldnt clear the retainer and had it happen before..so i didnt want to take the chance.
I explained my build fully to him and that I would be using an e303 cam and fms 1.6rr's. I hope this new kit from trick flow will be ok with him. His reputation in the area is nothing but stellar so I hope everything turns out ok. Ill re-convey the build to him again to make sure everything is done correctly. I appreciate your concern for the setup...I really want everything to go as smooth as possible.

 

[RYC CUKR]

The trickflow kit should work fine. I used it on my P heads with a TFS stage 1 cam. With the TFS kit all the locks are the same but there are different retainers for the intake valves and exhaust valves since the stock exhaust valves have the rotators on them. I put the kit on myself and it was pretty straight forward and I had no issues so an engine builder should be good to go. IIRC the installed height for the trickflow valve springs with the stage 1 cam is 1.800".

 

[347HO]

Thats was also my first impression when he told me of this issue. I know tons of users here have used the crane kit but I figured I couldnt argue with 35 years of experience. He said that he doesnt see those heads often and just didnt feel comfortable putting the kit together and not fully understanding all the components. He acted like he was certain the rocker wouldnt clear the retainer and had it happen before..so i didnt want to take the chance.
I explained my build fully to him and that I would be using an e303 cam and fms 1.6rr's. I hope this new kit from trick flow will be ok with him. His reputation in the area is nothing but stellar so I hope everything turns out ok. Ill re-convey the build to him again to make sure everything is done correctly. I appreciate your concern for the setup...I really want everything to go as smooth as possible.

Cool.
Double, even triple check all your clearances, especially coil-bind. Also check for retainer to guide clearance at full open.

It sounds like a lot to check, and overwhelming... but it's pretty much straight forward once you have better understanding. The results will be worth your efforts.

 

[MotiV8ed_95GT]

I just installed the same kit on my gt40 irons. The black locks are for the exhaust valves, the silver ones are for the intake valves. Fit perfect for me, no issues.

Ross