NEED HELP!!

nugget68 · Feb 12, 2006

I put on my new weiand xcelorator and holley 4160 carb, and crane cams points to electronic conversion, now i cant get my car start...i have fire, and i have fuel, i put my distributor back where it was and i also moved it a little, but i cant get my engine to fire. all help is greatly appreciated.
nugget68

TBP · Feb 12, 2006

Welcome to the club. There seem to be a lot of us "rookies" having carb problems lately. I'm still trying to get my own issues straightened out. Is it at least trying to turn over? Good charged battery? Double, triple, and quadruple check your firing order. Don't take anything for granted, recheck everything.

nugget68 · Feb 12, 2006

i never did take the spark plug wires loose so timing is right, unless for some odd reason the new ignition requires a different timing order, but i wouldnt think it would since i ordered it for my application...i took one of the plug wores loose to see if i was getting fire and i was, lokked in the carb and i am getting fuel...i'm sooo confused...

TBP · Feb 12, 2006

Just because you didn't take them loose, doesn't guarantee that the timing is correct. Let's say however that it is. Battery got a good charge?

nugget68 · Feb 12, 2006

car was being jump started...i gve up on getting it started, so i hooked up the battery charger, i guess we'll see what happens tomorrow...

iskwezm · Feb 12, 2006

if you never removed the distributor, sounds like something isnt right with the conversion, or timing is off.

nugget68 · Feb 13, 2006

well, i am pretty sure that it is definately the timing...i totally removed the distributor because the intake was hitting it when i tried to pull it off, i also thought it would be easier to do the conversion with it out of the car...i am not an what you would call a mechanic, but i can do a lot of things that deal with working on cars, but a lot of times its swapping things that i really do. that being said i should have gotten someone to help me with the distibutor because i have never pulled one out and then put it back in. i know the distributor needs to be in the same position that it was in when it came out, and i thought that it was in relation to where the vacuum was pointing, but the shaft may be in a different position, will this make a difference?

Edbert · Feb 13, 2006

It takes two things to fire, spark and fuel, the spark must also happen at the right time. When you try to start the car is it even "trying" to fire? You should be able to tell from the sound. If not I suspect you are simply not getting spark. Even if the timing is way off you should still hear it trying to ingite.

You have ruled out the distro being 180 degrees off, you have ruled out the plug wires being out of order, so make sure the plugs are sparking. Pull one out, ground it and look for a spark. Or pull off a plug wire and see if a spark jumps accross to a metal protrusion like a bolt on the shock tower. No spark no start. Are you sure your coil is compatible with the electronic conversion?

Try putting your old points stuff back in, or just redo the elctronic install carefully and check every step. My guess is you put it in wrong somehow, only takes a small thing being connected wrong to make it not work.

dennis112 · Feb 13, 2006

nugget68 said:
well, i am pretty sure that it is definately the timing...i totally removed the distributor because the intake was hitting it when i tried to pull it off, i also thought it would be easier to do the conversion with it out of the car...i am not an what you would call a mechanic, but i can do a lot of things that deal with working on cars, but a lot of times its swapping things that i really do. that being said i should have gotten someone to help me with the distibutor because i have never pulled one out and then put it back in. i know the distributor needs to be in the same position that it was in when it came out, and i thought that it was in relation to where the vacuum was pointing, but the shaft may be in a different position, will this make a difference?

It is more involved than what you thought. There is a definite relationship that needs to be made with the compression stroke. It is not hard to fix.

To relocate the distributor to point to #1 wire:

1. Remove #1 spark plug (front passenger side plug.)
2. Put a thumb over the spark plug hole and have friend gently "bump" the starter until you feel compression trying to solidly push your thumb away. This is the compression stroke.
3. Move to the front of the engine and look down at the timing pointer and harmonic balancer. You should see the marks on the balancer, which may not yet be aligned with the pointer.
4. Turn the fan clockwise (looking from the front of the car) or bump the starter lightly until the pointer and the balancer are about zero.
5. Remove the distributor cap. Rotor should point toward #1 spark plug terminal. If it doesn't loosen the distributor and reset it with the rotor pointing toward #1.
6. Repeat steps 2-5 as many times as nesessary until you are satisfied that the rotor is pointing to #1 wire when there is compression at #1 cylinder.
7. Tighten distributor lightly.
8. Reinstall spark plug.
9. Use a timing light to adjust the timing. Be sure to have the vacuum line removed.
10. Tighten down the distributor.

nugget68 · Feb 13, 2006

i took a plug wire loose and put a screwdriver in it and grounded it on the shock tower bolt and it was sparking, so i do have spark...wouldn't that rule out the eloctronic module being hooked up wrong?

Capt Dan · Feb 13, 2006

nugget68 said:
i know the distributor needs to be in the same position that it was in when it came out, and i thought that it was in relation to where the vacuum was pointing, but the shaft may be in a different position, will this make a difference?

yes. much. This too, should have been in the same position. Set it @ TDC (compression) and make sure it is pointing @ #1 cyl.

Edbert · Feb 13, 2006

Edbert said:
You have ruled out the distro being 180 degrees off, you have ruled out the plug wires being out of order, so make sure the plugs are sparking.

Guess I misread the original problem, I thought you were sure of the position of the distro. The distributor housing should be in the same position when it is re-installed (I think that is what you meant) but the internal shaft with the rotor on it must also be in the exact same position. Since you have turned the motor over it is too late to try and put it back now. Do the process that Dennis outlined and you should be fine. To get exactly on TDC of the compression stroke I always turn the motor by hand, the starter is too violent to get it exact in my experience. Use the starter to get it close, have someone turn the motor with a big wrench on the crankshaft and feel the piston with your finger (never put your finger inside the cylinder if you are using the electric starter!). You should feel it come up and go back down, get it set at the top.

nugget68 · Feb 13, 2006

thanks guys, i thought this might be the problem, but i didnt want to start trying to move all that before i knew for sure...i let you know when i get it fixed...

nugget68 · Feb 13, 2006

it was definately the timing...when i got that strait it fired right up...only thing left now it a little fine tuning and adjusting my rocker arms...let me tell yo though, that thing sounds like a different engine when you get on it...wow i cant wait to get some headers...

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