Need Some Extra Help Guys

5pointohmustang · Nov 20, 2013

car always cuts off from cold start after about 10 minutes hot/cold days, under load, wot, just sitting idle it doesn't matter
4 minutes later it will start and run normal with a small idle surge every couple of minutes

The only unfamiliar codes:
KOEO
14 Ignition profile pickup (PIP)
10 (a separator code I believe)

all maintenance is recent including a new summit racing distributor

hell today I cleaned the TB set factory timing and I even removed my cats in fear of a small clog still cut off after about 10 minutes... even if I cut it off before the 10 minutes it will start up normal and die on it's schedule

I
am
lost

any suggestions would be highly appreciated

mikestang63 · Nov 20, 2013

Think you found your problem... PIP module is bad. Very common failure. If you want to confirm, go to autozone and buy a NOID light, disconnect the #1 injector from the harness, plug in the noid light and fire it up. I'll bet the light doesn't flash indicating you are not getting signal to the injectors= bad PIP.

You have two options. Get a new PIP module and replace it or, find an OEM replacement distributor from Rock Auto.

5pointohmustang · Nov 20, 2013

mikestang63 said:
Think you found your problem... PIP module is bad. Very common failure. If you want to confirm, go to autozone and buy a NOID light, disconnect the #1 injector from the harness, plug in the noid light and fire it up. I'll bet the light doesn't flash indicating you are not getting signal to the injectors= bad PIP.

You have two options. Get a new PIP module and replace it or, find an OEM replacement distributor from Rock Auto.

everyone keeps telling me the PIP, that's why when it happened for the first time last month i bought a new distributor:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...view/make/ford and it's still happening...

doesn't that distributor come with a new tfi and pip sensor??

jcgafford · Nov 20, 2013

Aftermarket parts often add new headaches to a current problem. See if you can get your hands on a oem distributor. Rerun your codes too. there is no 10 code. I assume you have run key on and key off codes?

5pointohmustang · Nov 20, 2013

jcgafford said:
Aftermarket parts often add new headaches to a current problem. See if you can get your hands on a oem distributor. Rerun your codes too. there is no 10 code. I assume you have run key on and key off codes?

we'll I dont think the new dizzy added OR subtracted to the issue, code 14 is the only problem ive ran both KOEO KOER,
since the same issue happened with my original dizzy i dont think that is the problem

jcgafford · Nov 20, 2013

5pointohmustang said:
we'll I dont think the new dizzy added OR subtracted to the issue, code 14 is the only problem ive ran both KOEO KOER,
since the same issue happened with my original dizzy i dont think that is the problem

yet you have code 14...

mikestang63 · Nov 20, 2013

5pointohmustang said:
everyone keeps telling me the PIP, that's why when it happened for the first time last month i bought a new distributor:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...view/make/ford and it's still happening...

doesn't that distributor come with a new tfi and pip sensor??

Trust us> we speak from experience. Put a stock/oem distributor back in with a stock TFI and PIP. I'll bet you the problem goes away. Many people think aftermarket=better when in fact the stock Ford ignition is a very good system and can easily support 400hp.

5pointohmustang · Nov 20, 2013

we'll that sux... I dont have the money for another distributor what are the odd's my OEM and summit dizzy both have a pip issue?

Blown88GT · Nov 20, 2013

Ford no longer makes the distributors. I waited 3 months for one until the supplier contacted Ford directly & got the answer.
View attachment 122275

jcgafford · Nov 20, 2013

5pointohmustang said:
we'll that sux... I dont have the money for another distributor what are the odd's my OEM and summit dizzy both have a pip issue?

pretty good, so onward from here. i had to find one out of a part out. the auto parts stores charge a core for them and have them rebuilt. which means somewhere out there there is a company that rebuilds them. look for a part out first and if not start looking for a rebuild shop. before i did anything i would phone a friend and have them pull their working dizzy and try it first. i bet its the problem, but its always nice to know for sure before you drop cash.

here are a list of vehicles you may be able to pull one from:
FORDCOUNTRY SQUIRE(1987 - 1991)
FORDLTD(1984 - 1985)
FORDLTD CROWN VICTORIA(1984 - 1991)
FORDMUSTANG(1984 - 1993)
FORDTHUNDERBIRD(1984 - 1988)
LINCOLNCONTINENTAL(1984 - 1987)
LINCOLNMARK VII(1984 - 1992)
LINCOLNTOWN CAR(1984 - 1990)
MERCURYCAPRI(1984 - 1986)
MERCURYCOLONY PARK(1987 - 1991)
MERCURYCOUGAR(1984 - 1988)
MERCURYGRAND MARQUIS(1984 - 1991)
MERCURYMARQUIS(1984 - 1985)
this is from rockauto and is a cross reference on one of their rebuilds for your 87. i can't tell you if they all have steel or cast gears. good luck

mikestang63 · Nov 20, 2013

5pointohmustang said:
we'll that sux... I dont have the money for another distributor what are the odd's my OEM and summit dizzy both have a pip issue?

is yours a stick or auto? They have different TFI modules

Rockauto sells a reman for abut $100

AUTOLINE Part # D4095 SUPPLIED W/O CAP ADAPTOR, EXTERNAL MODULE MOUNTED ON DIST, W/STEEL GEAR. Reman
FORD TYPE
$97.79$50.00$147.79

Or they sell them on Flea Bay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321251180351?lpid=82

5pointohmustang · Nov 20, 2013

mikestang63 said:
is yours a stick or auto? They have different TFI modules

Rockauto sells a reman for abut $100

AUTOLINE Part # D4095 SUPPLIED W/O CAP ADAPTOR, EXTERNAL MODULE MOUNTED ON DIST, W/STEEL GEAR. Reman
FORD TYPE
$97.79$50.00$147.79

Or they sell them on Flea Bay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321251180351?lpid=82

stick, it looks exactly like my oem

liljoe07 · Nov 20, 2013

mikestang63 said:
is yours a stick or auto? They have different TFI modules

I dont know why places list them as being different for the Transmission type for the Fox bodys. But there is no difference between the two. You have "Push Start" TFI's, and you have "Computer Controlled Dwell" TFI's. All Fox's use the Push Start. So the TFI is the same for either manual or Auto trans Fox bodys.

Grabbin' Asphalt · Nov 20, 2013

Got a ford reman from Napa not too long ago, around $100.

...so i thought from some reading about the TFI's, if you put a so called auto TFI on a manual you couldn't Push Start a manual from rolling it. No idea in any truth in that, just internet reading...Lol

Blown88GT · Nov 20, 2013

I tried the reman route with a dizzy. They put the body in an etch tank to clean it. The mounting holes for the TFI were etched away, no threads left for the mounting screws. The Ford logo was barely visible. I never even got it off the bench. It pretty much tells you they do no testing at all. Virtually all remans are done by Cardone. There are some remans that will take your own dizzy & rebuilt it. It was cheaper to install a MSD Pro Billet.

I still have my original & a core from the junkyard. Original got messed up trying to get the gear off & remove the shaft. Some models, it comes right out, others need a press.

5pointohmustang · Nov 20, 2013

damn i guess i'll have to blow $100 on a reman in spite of hope, i wonder if i can return my summit dizzy don't think it's been 90 days

liljoe07 · Nov 20, 2013

Grabbin' Asphalt said:
...so i thought from some reading about the TFI's, if you put so called auto TFI on a manual you couldn't Push Start a manual from rolling it. No idea in any trurh in that, just internet reading...Lol

Nah, it will still push start. Nothing in the wiring changes on the TFI between Auto or Manual. Only changes are between the Black and Gray TFI's. Black TFI's dont use the Start function to retard timing during crank. Its actually replaced with the IDM circuit. There are some other differences, but none really pertaining to this thread. There are very, very few vehicles that actually have a Black "push start" TFI. But all gray TFI's are "push start" as far as I know.

Blown88GT · Nov 20, 2013

Found the link for ya: http://351winsor.com/joel/Ignition_Systems/tfi2.html

Here's the one I was looking for: http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC Help files/Files/TFI_grey_or_black.html

I suspect your Code 14 is a wiring problem, not a dizzy problem.

PIP out is pin-6 on the top. You'll have to ohm it all the way back to the computer, pin-56.
He has wiring diagrams here: http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

5pointohmustang · Nov 20, 2013

Blown88GT said:
Found the link for ya: http://351winsor.com/joel/Ignition_Systems/tfi2.html

Here's the one I was looking for: http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC Help files/Files/TFI_grey_or_black.html

I suspect your Code 14 is a wiring problem, not a dizzy problem.

PIP out is pin-6 on the top. You'll have to ohm it all the way back to the computer, pin-56.
He has wiring diagrams here: http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

so since it's a wiring issue i dont have to remove the tfi? i would see what the ohms are while running? lol it took me a hour to figure out how to set my tps

liljoe07 · Nov 20, 2013

5pointohmustang said:
so since it's a wiring issue i dont have to remove the tfi? i would see what the ohms are while running? lol it took me a hour to figure out how to set my tps

Not while running. You should never ohm out a circuit thats live.

Need Some Extra Help Guys

5pointohmustang

Member

mikestang63

5pointohmustang

Member

jcgafford

5pointohmustang

Member

jcgafford

mikestang63

5pointohmustang

Member

Blown88GT

jcgafford

mikestang63

5pointohmustang

Member

liljoe07

Grabbin' Asphalt

Blown88GT

5pointohmustang

Member

liljoe07

Blown88GT

5pointohmustang

Member

liljoe07

Similar threads

Need Some Extra Help Guys

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency