need to know how to get 400hp out of 351w?

70stanger · Jul 15, 2006

I have a 1979 351w block and I want to know how to get close to 400hp and 400ftlbs of torque! I am putting forged flat top pistons in and have a Holley 750 four barell already! I would like to know what intake, cam, and heads would get me there and still be streetable with it! It is going in a 1970 coupe that is a project and I want to stomp all over those little rice rockets!!! Any info would be highly appreciated!!!

Cannoball888 · Jul 15, 2006

http://www.mustangsteve.com/351W_Parts.html

Max Power · Jul 16, 2006

LOL, I was just gonna say to bolt the Performer RPM package on it......

67Dylan · Jul 19, 2006

AFR 205 heads, Vic Jr intake, Ed Curtis/Buddy Rawls custom cam & LT headers. Shouldn't be that hard, just make sure you put 351 parts on her... seen ppl put 302 parts and expected 351 power (302 parts meaning meant for the smaller windsor motor). There are many combo's that will get you there, that's just my idea.

Max Power · Jul 19, 2006

67Dylan said:
AFR 205 heads, Vic Jr intake, Ed Curtis/Buddy Rawls custom cam & LT headers. Shouldn't be that hard, just make sure you put 351 parts on her... seen ppl put 302 parts and expected 351 power (302 parts meaning meant for the smaller windsor motor). There are many combo's that will get you there, that's just my idea.

What do you mean by 302 parts?

393 strokers use 302 pistons, heads are interchangable but performance heads work well for both, intakes are not interchangable, etc.

I guess I don't understand the 302 parts comment?

67Dylan · Jul 20, 2006

Max Power said:
What do you mean by 302 parts?

393 strokers use 302 pistons, heads are interchangable but performance heads work well for both, intakes are not interchangable, etc.

I guess I don't understand the 302 parts comment?

Would you put 302 heads on a 351? If performance is not an issue, yes. But why spend the money or time to put a 351 in the car if you're not gonna get anything out of it. For example, AFR 165 heads will work on a 351, but AFR 205 are better suited for the bigger breathing motor. Now this isn't to say the 205's won't work on a 302, but you better have a badass 302 to use those heads, no?
Bigger exhaust, bigger carb or TB if injected, BIGGER, BIGGER! Of the engine internals you are limited on what will work and what won't so IMO that's a given.

Wonder why I say this? I've seen ppl put 351's in fox mustangs w/as many of their 302 parts on/in it and wonder why they don't break 300HP. Personally I think they're idiots, but that's just me.

Get it?

Max Power · Jul 20, 2006

Well, I guess if you are talking about stock factory parts I get it, but you suggested AFR 205s which are not specific to 302s or 351s. AFR 165s actually would work very well for a torque build on a 351. Remember, AFR 165s have achieved over 400hp at the flywheel on a 302 roller with factory cam.

AFR 165s are NOT 302 heads.

eagleautosports · Jul 20, 2006

It isn't subject to smog and crap like that is it? AFR has some heads without the smog, EGR and heat rise that makes more power but keeps the 165 and 185 cc intake runners. The 205 would really wake it up but a Victor Jr or Super Victor is what's recommended with it. I'd stick with the 185's.

67Dylan · Jul 20, 2006

Max Power said:
Well, I guess if you are talking about stock factory parts I get it,

I'm not talking factory parts at all, but now that you mention it, who in their performance mind would want to use stock 302 heads on a 351.

Max Power said:
but you suggested AFR 205s which are not specific to 302s or 351s.

I did not state 205's being specific for either of the windsor blocks. You could use them on either, but as I stated in my other post, you better have a bad ass 302 to use them 'properly', or if you'd like take advantage of them. They ARE better suited for a 351based motor, or stroked 302 if you want. Of course you can use smaller heads cause as anyone that builds motors knows it comes down to COMBO. The right combo wins, not the 'best parts' that might be mismatched. I don't get your point, but whatever.

Max Power said:
AFR 165s actually would work very well for a torque build on a 351. Remember, AFR 165s have achieved over 400hp at the flywheel on a 302 roller with factory cam.

I would agree that 165's could work on the 351, but WHY? See my comment about combo's and insert here -->! BTW, I also saw the article in Car Craft w/the 165 headed 302 making 400 to the flywheel too. I've run mid 12's@108 w/a stock cam in a full weight 91LX... again, combo.

Max Power said:
AFR 165s are NOT 302 heads.

You are right, if you have a stock 351 and want a 'little' power gain they'll work. <-- I just don't see the point. Why not just put ported E7's on the 351?
Do you think my 377 will make more power w/165 heads or the Canfields I have on their now? I just put a custom Ed C. cam that has over .700 lift... yeah, I'm sure the 165's would make it a torque monster

Max Power · Jul 21, 2006

Of course 165s wont work as well with .700 cam lift, as wont a variety of other aftermarket heads. 165s are in a different league from E7s, and they are windsor parts, not "302" parts. You could easily get 400hp out of a 351 with 165s, as that is the original question that was asked.

You are talking about aftermarket parts for Ford Windsors. Perhaps it would be more clear to talk about "combo" from the get go than confuse new rodders with 302 vs 351 parts. That was my original point.

Running a .700 lift cam on a 302 OR a 351 would dictate the need for a larger head....duh.

BTW, save the finger wagging

67Dylan · Jul 21, 2006

How 'easily' could you get the power w/those dinky heads? They quite flowing at .500 - they are done on the intake side. Point being, the larger heads make it easier to reach the level wanted and will support increased breathing if one wants to go faster. Wouldn't they be worth the extra cost? I see 2 different thoughts we have, but you should be able to see why the larger heads are the better choice.

You're an argumentative individual aren't you? Splitting hairs over '302' vs '351' windsor terminlogy. Would it make sense if I inserted the word 'windsor' for '302'? I don't think it would, it leaves too much interpretation and I'd rather say what I mean. BTW, I did use 'combo' in my original post... go back and read it .

Done arguing w/you... got better things to do w/my life.

Max Power · Jul 21, 2006

67Dylan said:
How 'easily' could you get the power w/those dinky heads? They quite flowing at .500 - they are done on the intake side.

Whatever. Considering AFR165s easily got 400hp on a 302 with a stock roller cam, I would guess they would get 400hp pretty easily on a 351 as well.

That is if they weren't 302 heads, of course....

67Dylan · Jul 21, 2006

Max Power said:
Whatever. Considering AFR165s easily got 400hp on a 302 with a stock roller cam, I would guess they would get 400hp pretty easily on a 351 as well.

That is if they weren't 302 heads, of course....

Yeah, that COMBO made 400FWHP. It had an aftermarket intake, carb, LT's (only on the test motor) and a few other goodies; you know a COMBO. Select a larger cam or get too big of a carb and it can and probably will reduce HP. You make it sound like it's a great feat using the stock cam; you tool, it's designed to be used on a small block (302) w/a small cam like the stock one .

Throw those heads on a stock 351 and you expect the same performance . Great, it's gonna fall flat on its face past .500; sounds like a great motor . Plus, the price difference is so minimal you'd be a tool to take the smaller heads. You have a lot to learn... let the ppl in the know give advice and you just sit back and learn, OK?

Max Power · Jul 23, 2006

67Dylan said:
Throw those heads on a stock 351 and you expect the same performance . Great, it's gonna fall flat on its face past .500; sounds like a great motor . Plus, the price difference is so minimal you'd be a tool to take the smaller heads. You have a lot to learn... let the ppl in the know give advice and you just sit back and learn, OK?

Wow, I thought I had been pretty civil up until this point, never of course, questioning your wisdom of "combo", as anybody knows that is true, but merely questening why you would call AFR heads "302 parts". That is hardly holding a gun to your head or insulting your mother. You even lied about being done arguing with me.

Must have hit some sort of nerve, given your insults, creative use of emoticons, and condascending remarks. Wow, don't question the wisdom of the allmight 67dylan, all after a whopping 39 posts here at Stangnet. Nice job.

Being a p***k on Stangnet won't make your anatomy bigger, won't get you a better looking girlfriend, and won't make your car faster. Why don't you work out your insecurities on your own time?

LOL...yeah, "you" are the people in the know. About the only thing I could learn from you is how to act like an insecure punk on the internet.

5.0ina66 · Jul 24, 2006

LOL, max, if you think that's bad, you should see the crap he stirred up over at VMF! Sonny Bryant cranks are the only ones good enough for him lol

and for the record, TFS 2 cam in a roller block, excellerator, 750cfm, 10.5:1 and CNC TFS heads...440hp, lotsa torque and 87 octane!

67Dylan · Jul 24, 2006

Max Power said:
Wow, I thought I had been pretty civil up until this point, never of course, questioning your wisdom of "combo", as anybody knows that is true, but merely questening why you would call AFR heads "302 parts". That is hardly holding a gun to your head or insulting your mother. You even lied about being done arguing with me.

Yeah, AFR165's are 302 heads, no matter how you cut it. You're the genius comparing a 302 combo vs a 351 combo using the same small heads; claiming if they got 400hp out of a 302 they can easily get 400 out of a 351.

Max Power said:
Must have hit some sort of nerve, given your insults, creative use of emoticons, and condascending remarks. Wow, don't question the wisdom of the allmight 67dylan, all after a whopping 39 posts here at Stangnet. Nice job.

The only nerve you hit was the 'internet bs' you are feeding. OK, so you can get 400hp out of a 351 w/165's...would they be your first choice? Then why recmnd them? BTW, what does post count have to do w/anything? <-- I guess your own stab at 'condescending remarks'.

Max Power said:
LOL...yeah, "you" are the people in the know. About the only thing I could learn from you is how to act like an insecure punk on the internet.

Condescending remarks from you again? Oh well... internet warriors are amidst. You should be ashamed of youself; suggesting those heads and arguing to prove a point, feckless point at that.

As for you 5.0ina66... I like Sonny Bryant cranks

Max Power · Jul 25, 2006

67Dylan said:
Yeah, AFR165's are 302 heads, no matter how you cut it. You're the genius comparing a 302 combo vs a 351 combo using the same small heads; claiming if they got 400hp out of a 302 they can easily get 400 out of a 351.

Well they can, and in a darn streetable fashion too. At .500" lift the heads flow 238 cfm on the intake side and 182 cfm through the exhaust. That is more than enough, if streetable 400hp is your goal. Not my first choice, but then, show me where I said it was.
http://www.airflowresearch.com/ford_dyno.php

67Dylan said:
The only nerve you hit was the 'internet bs' you are feeding. OK, so you can get 400hp out of a 351 w/165's...would they be your first choice? Then why recmnd them? BTW, what does post count have to do w/anything? <-- I guess your own stab at 'condescending remarks'.

OK, now you admit that 400hp is attainable with 165s. I never said they would be my first choice, and I never actually recommended them. I merely questioned why you would call them 302 parts, when they are not. You seem to have a reading comprehension issue.

67Dylan said:
Condescending remarks from you again? Oh well... internet warriors are amidst. You should be ashamed of youself; suggesting those heads and arguing to prove a point, feckless point at that.

Condescending remarks from me again? LOL...go back and read the thread again, Sunshine. I am not using "owned" and finger wagging emoticons like you. It is only after punk comments like you telling a middle aged ASE Master Tech to "sit back and learn" did I call you on it, and now you're acting like I am the problem. Riiight. You might want to try anger management classes to help you address your issues. If you are going to be disrespectful to people, you had better bring a little more game than that.

Again, I never suggested those heads, I just questioned that they were "302 parts" and said that they were capable of producing 400hp on a 351. That is not the same as suggesting them, or recommending them.

You finished at the bottom third of your class, didn't you? You can't get your lunch money back on the internet, you know....

67Dylan · Jul 25, 2006

Max Power said:
Well they can, and in a darn streetable fashion too. At .500" lift the heads flow 238 cfm on the intake side and 182 cfm through the exhaust. That is more than enough, if streetable 400hp is your goal. Not my first choice, but then, show me where I said it was.
http://www.airflowresearch.com/ford_dyno.php

If the 165's & 185's are w/in 100$ of each other and the 185's outflow them & allow more growth why would you choose them? I never said they were your first choice, just a poor choice when armed w/the aforementioned information, no? Of course you'll defend them, but I think my point is proven; too bad you're not admitting you suggested a bad part.

Max Power said:
OK, now you admit that 400hp is attainable with 165s. I never said they would be my first choice, and I never actually recommended them. I merely questioned why you would call them 302 parts, when they are not. You seem to have a reading comprehension issue.

I never said it wasn't possible to obtain 400 out of the small heads, but why use the small heads? You never answered that; not much difference in price than their big brother and they're outflowed by the 185's, so why? You must have some reason?

Max Power said:
Condescending remarks from me again? LOL...go back and read the thread again, Sunshine. I am not using "owned" and finger wagging emoticons like you. It is only after punk comments like you telling a middle aged ASE Master Tech to "sit back and learn" did I call you on it, and now you're acting like I am the problem. Riiight. You might want to try anger management classes to help you address your issues. If you are going to be disrespectful to people, you had better bring a little more game than that.

You sound more like a middle aged parts counter punk to me; who's arguing over 302 heads? To what, prove a point that you can make the power, but what happens when you want to grow. What do you do the w/the heads then genius? wow an ase jack master... i'm honored pal. That must make you god or something. I have more game than your old ass can handle.

Max Power said:
Again, I never suggested those heads, I just questioned that they were "302 parts" and said that they were capable of producing 400hp on a 351. That is not the same as suggesting them, or recommending them.

Then why make a big deal over it? You must not get it then. Cause they ARE 302 heads you... why am I arguing w/an old parts counter girl?

Max Power said:
You finished at the bottom third of your class, didn't you? You can't get your lunch money back on the internet, you know....

Actually, I graduated from DeVry U w/my associates w/honors and w/my BS in Science from ASU in the top 10% of my class. Nice remarks tho gaylord!

Max Power · Jul 26, 2006

LOL.. a DeVry grad! I know when I am beat!!

Again, for your reading impairment, I never suggested any heads. I merely said they would work and questioned why you would call them "302 parts".

Apparantly your ego is so easily bruised that you just can't stop. You can modify in your little mind what you *think* I said, but until you get an edit button on my posts, the whole world can see that finishing "w/honors" doesn't seem to help reading comprehension any.

At this point, and for our moderators sake, I really don't see much reason for this to continue. Your lame haymakers are starting to sound desperate, so I'll just let you go on recommending .700 lift cams and 7500 rpm motors for people who want streetable horsepower. I am sure the rest of the world can figure you out just as easily.

I am sure that your response to this will include some more fabrications about what I said and some junior high insult, and I am sure that will make you feel vastly superior.

Knock yourself out, flybait.

jikelly · Jul 26, 2006

Boy are you guys going at it.

I got a 351W I think its got like 375HP 400FTLB. Below are my specs. I really like the cam and intake. I actually lost a little power when I put on those wildly ported heads. I think that's cuz of the drop in the compression ratio. That's what I get for going with those dished pistons. Lesson learned I guess.

Year 1973
Body Convertible
Color Various Shades of Primer (hopefully spraying it blue glow tomorrow morning)

Engine 351w
Exhaust Headman Shorties
Custom 2.5" Dual

Camshaft Comp Cam Xtrem 268
Lift .509"/.512"

Heads PowerHeads 302-351"Early"
Valves 1.94 X 1.60 Forged Stainless Steel

Intake Weiland Stealth

Transmision Tremec 3550
Rear Axle 3:73

Suspension
Front Coil Springs 620lb
Front Sway Bar 7/8"
Rear Leaf Springs 4½-leaf Standard Eye
Rear Sway Bar 3/4"
Shocks Magna (Mustangs Plus)

Wheels 17" 94 Cobra Rims with 1" spacers all around

need to know how to get 400hp out of 351w?

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