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New AFR/FTI combo, Let the Problems Begin...

  • Thread starter Thread starter 94DreamGT
  • Start date Start date Mar 13, 2004
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94DreamGT

Founding Member
Jul 19, 2000
593
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16
Indiana
Mar 13, 2004
#1
  • Mar 13, 2004
  • #1
Ok...I knew after the install of the AFR/FTI stuff went so smoothly, something eventually had to give me troubles.

I've put the first 60 miles on it this week and she is running very strong...so that is good, but I have had some annoying issues come up as well.

The issues:

- Car still won't idle worth a crap. I mistakenly screwed around with the both the IAC screw AND the throttle blade set screw to get it to idle without major surging and dying as it was doing this at every stoplight, intersection, startup etc.... Result: Car now idles at 1000rpm without dying but I have major hanging idle when driving...as in I let off the gas at 2500rpm and it goes down to 1800rpm and then takes about 15 seconds to get back down to 1000rpm. Sometimes the revs go up on their own I know I need to mess around more on this, but I hope I didn't get it too far out of whack. Would resetting the computer help? I have also been reading up on TPS settings and have gotten mixed advice on this. I know the problem solution is the custom chip or a TwEECer, but as I said before...that is not something I want to do right now. I've seen plenty of guys get pretty good idle and drivability out of their cars with big cams and stock computers, so I know it can be done. Any advice?

- Valvetrain ticking is louder than I am comfortable with. I can hear it ticking from WITHIN the car while driving. Outside of the car with it idling, the ticking is louder than the motor noise coming from the engine. I have done everything including putting my ear next to the valvecovers to try to locate the particular rocker which is making the most noise...no luck...the noise seems to be coming from everywhere. I know the FTI cam with its high ramp rates and my stiff springs etc...make the valvetrain more noisy, but I think this is excessive. Keep in mind I have already reset the valves so I'm pretty sure none are too loose or too tight. I'm probably going to put a few hundred more miles on it and then check them again. Thoughts?

- Today the biggest worry sprang up. Finally decided to open her up to see how far she will pull. Did a couple 2nd gear pulls up to 5800-6000rpm and I'll tell you this...she likes it up there!!! I can her singing "I can breath at last" But anyways...I get it home and park it...2 hours later there are 2 or 3 decent sized drops of oil on the garage floor. Keep in mind that in the first 50 miles of driving, not a drop of anything came out of her. First thoughts are that the high rpm driving maybe partially blew out a seal or caused a leak somewhere. I hope its not the rear main seal (which I did replace), or the lower intake which was sealed well with RTV. Any ideas? I'm going to get under there tomorrow if I have time to change the oil and check around. I also changed the oil pan gasket and let's just pray its not that.

- I have gone through almost half a tank of gas in the first 60 miles. I have the FP set at 39psi (vacuum off). This might be because I have done a lot of running the engine and idling and short drive trips with "testing runs", but I think that is a little excessive fuel consumption. Is this a sign of it running very rich?


I know it is still very early with this combo, and I did expect problems with the computer...but I want to hear from other people who have gone through similiar combo's and hear what they think of this.
 
H

HRT11

New Member
Feb 2, 2004
122
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0
Plattsburgh, NY
Mar 13, 2004
#2
  • Mar 13, 2004
  • #2
man it sounds like you have all the "usual" problems now
im fighting each and every thing you just listed myself
 

Imyourzero

Learned that lesson as a horny teenager with lots
Founding Member
Mar 10, 2002
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Hoonose, U.S.A. Posts: 39,051
Mar 13, 2004
#3
  • Mar 13, 2004
  • #3
LOL, man it sucks when you stick major mods on these cars because most of the time the car doesn't digest them well and you can plan on having issues that cost time and money to fix. However, I wish you good luck because when you DO get that thing dialed in and get past these snags, it'll be well worth it!

I was also using Scorpion 1.6's until a few days ago and my valvetrain was noisy also. It wasn't very loud inside the car but you could hear it esp. at idle. And the ticking was very noticeable to me when standing outside the car, especially anywhere near the front of the car. I don't have an FTI cam but my XE270HR does have aggressive ramp rates and I have the high-lift springs on my Thumper heads...
 

tmoss

Gettin Wired
Founding Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,153
32
128
Saint Louis, MO
Mar 14, 2004
#4
  • Mar 14, 2004
  • #4
Imyourzero said:
I was also using Scorpion 1.6's until a few days ago and my valvetrain was noisy also.
Click to expand...

So did you switch and did the noise go away?
 
R

rel3rd

Founding Member
Nov 1, 2002
270
11
18
Baltimore, MARYLAND
Mar 14, 2004
#5
  • Mar 14, 2004
  • #5
This should help you get the idle dialed in better than you have it right now...

http://pub29.ezboard.com/fthunderbirdscenthusiastclubfrm13.showMessage?topicID=96.topic
 

final5-0

Mustang Master
Apr 6, 2003
6,817
12
79
DFW Texas
Mar 14, 2004
#6
  • Mar 14, 2004
  • #6
I readjusted my valves after a few miles and several heat cycles and they did make less noise.

Later
Grady
 

Imyourzero

Learned that lesson as a horny teenager with lots
Founding Member
Mar 10, 2002
2,298
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0
Hoonose, U.S.A. Posts: 39,051
Mar 14, 2004
#7
  • Mar 14, 2004
  • #7
tmoss said:
So did you switch and did the noise go away?
Click to expand...

I'm still in the process of switching; I'll let you know later this week since the valve covers are still off the car right now. I ordered some Crane 1.72's from Summit that should be here tomorrow.
 
J

jetuomi

Founding Member
Jan 30, 2002
1,464
0
0
Toronto, ON
Mar 14, 2004
#8
  • Mar 14, 2004
  • #8
94DreamGT said:
Ok...I knew after the install of the AFR/FTI stuff went so smoothly, something eventually had to give me troubles.

I've put the first 60 miles on it this week and she is running very strong...so that is good, but I have had some annoying issues come up as well.

The issues:


- Valvetrain ticking is louder than I am comfortable with. I can hear it ticking from WITHIN the car while driving. Outside of the car with it idling, the ticking is louder than the motor noise coming from the engine. I have done everything including putting my ear next to the valvecovers to try to locate the particular rocker which is making the most noise...no luck...the noise seems to be coming from everywhere. I know the FTI cam with its high ramp rates and my stiff springs etc...make the valvetrain more noisy, but I think this is excessive. Keep in mind I have already reset the valves so I'm pretty sure none are too loose or too tight. I'm probably going to put a few hundred more miles on it and then check them again. Thoughts?

....

I know it is still very early with this combo, and I did expect problems with the computer...but I want to hear from other people who have gone through similiar combo's and hear what they think of this.
Click to expand...


Get your valvetrain geometry checked, u might need different length pushrods?
 
9

94DreamGT

Founding Member
Jul 19, 2000
593
0
16
Indiana
Mar 15, 2004
#9
  • Mar 15, 2004
  • #9
Valvetrain geometry was checked...both by Ed prior to selling me the custom cam/heads/pushrods/rockers AND by myself when installing. The sweep was centered pretty much right where it needed to be on the valve stem.

Next...
 
E

eagle87

Member
Apr 30, 2003
62
0
6
New York
Mar 15, 2004
#10
  • Mar 15, 2004
  • #10
This is a damm shame I feel for ya Iv'e been their. The easiest way out might be a chip or a Tweecer. The 94 comp dont help either.good luck
 

tmoss

Gettin Wired
Founding Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,153
32
128
Saint Louis, MO
Mar 15, 2004
#11
  • Mar 15, 2004
  • #11
Pro-M sells a kit to convert to an 87-93 computer.
 
9

94DreamGT

Founding Member
Jul 19, 2000
593
0
16
Indiana
Mar 15, 2004
#12
  • Mar 15, 2004
  • #12
Got under the car yesterday and did the first oil change. Oil leak seems to be coming from Engine Plate area where the bellhousing mounts to the transmission. I hope its not the rear main seal or worse, the back of the oil pan. Guess I'll have to keep an eye on it and see if it gets worse/better etc... If it stays like this (couple of quarter sized drips per day, then I can wait til later this year to pull the tranny.

Idle is still total whack...I need to start from scratch and see what I can get. I know the TwEECer will be the final end all, but I need to just find a temporary solution to get me into this summer.

I'm going to reset the valves this weekend and see if quiets the valvetrain down.

And as to the power output...I will find that out this weekend as I have a date with a friend's LS1
 

zenboy99

Founding Member
May 12, 2002
2,212
0
47
Madison, WI
Mar 15, 2004
#13
  • Mar 15, 2004
  • #13
I've heard great success stories with the JMS chips, a couple people on here have used them with FTI cam setups. $325 might be a little steep for a temporary fix though if you're getting a tweecer.
 
J

jjd975

Founding Member
Jul 17, 2000
4,236
0
0
louisville,kentucky
Mar 15, 2004
#14
  • Mar 15, 2004
  • #14
I use to have the same idle issues that you have. It just took me some time to get it right. I would make very small adjustments to the idle screw from time to time (after driving it) and eventually I got it dialed in.

Once the idle was the way I wanted it I adjusted the TPS to within range and left it at that.

Valve train noise varies form car to car it seems. Maybe they are a touch loose. Odds are it will be a noise you'll have to live with. Dont know if running a lil thicker oil would help or not.
 

HoofnIt

Founding Member
Jan 8, 2001
1,175
0
36
North Carolina
Mar 15, 2004
#15
  • Mar 15, 2004
  • #15
It might not hurt to retighten the oil pan bolts. Maybe they worked a little loose and are now causing the oil leak. It's a free fix that may work.
 
9

94DreamGT

Founding Member
Jul 19, 2000
593
0
16
Indiana
Mar 15, 2004
#16
  • Mar 15, 2004
  • #16
HoofnIt said:
It might not hurt to retighten the oil pan bolts. Maybe they worked a little loose and are now causing the oil leak. It's a free fix that may work.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion...I actually had a buddy tell me to check these bolts as well so I'm kindof hoping that may be it. Good idea.
 

Imyourzero

Learned that lesson as a horny teenager with lots
Founding Member
Mar 10, 2002
2,298
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0
Hoonose, U.S.A. Posts: 39,051
Mar 18, 2004
#17
  • Mar 18, 2004
  • #17
Imyourzero said:
I'm still in the process of switching; I'll let you know later this week since the valve covers are still off the car right now. I ordered some Crane 1.72's from Summit that should be here tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Tmoss: Alright...got the car back tonight. Switched from Scorpion 1.6's to the Crane 1.72's. The loud ticking I had is GONE. The valvetrain is much quieter and the cam sounds different. Seems to be a bit lopier and deeper than before. I'm going to let the new rockers break in so I'm not gonna get on it for a couple hundred miles, but on the way I kept it under 3k and I could've sworn I felt a little bit of low end loss yet the car really seemed to want to go around 3k or so. Is it possible that the increased lift caused by the 1.72's would cause a loss of low end torque but more midrange/high end HP?
 

SorsCode

20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 10, 2003
1,020
428
113
St. Louis, MO
Mar 18, 2004
#18
  • Mar 18, 2004
  • #18
any luck 94DreamGT??? With your problems yet... haven't heard from the other guy that did the AFR/FTI swap on how its going
 
9

94DreamGT

Founding Member
Jul 19, 2000
593
0
16
Indiana
Mar 19, 2004
#19
  • Mar 19, 2004
  • #19
SorsCode said:
any luck 94DreamGT??? With your problems yet... haven't heard from the other guy that did the AFR/FTI swap on how its going
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I haven't had a whole lot of time to mess with it the past week.

I am pretty excited about this weekend because I will really see where it stands power wise...I have a "date" with a buddy's bolt-on LS1 that runs 13.0's @ 108.

I need to mess with around with the IAC and the TPS to try to get my idle problems fixed.

The oil leak...I"m afraid is either the rear main seal or the oil pan gasket...either one of which I can do nothing about anytime soon, so as long as its only the few drips a night, I"ll have to live with it.

Before I meet up with my friends tomorrow...two of us are going to pull the upper and reset the rockers to see if it quiets down the valvetrain at all.

I'll post up updates to all of this on Sunday...most importantly the LS1 encounter
 

Joes95GT

New Member
Jan 23, 2003
3,132
1
0
Delaware
Mar 19, 2004
#20
  • Mar 19, 2004
  • #20
Imyourzero said:
Is it possible that the increased lift caused by the 1.72's would cause a loss of low end torque but more midrange/high end HP?
Click to expand...
That should be expected (to a certain degree).

Joe
 
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