New Engine won't start, HELP!!!!

crogers813 · Mar 18, 2009

Okay, just installed the new motor in the car, and it won't crank.

Build: (Street car/Sunday Driver)

*New Ford Racing shortblock 302 with hyp. pistons
*New High flow, standard pressure oil pump, pickup, and driveshaft
*GT40p heads, ported and worked over, TF valve upgrade kit
*New Rods and Lifters, 1.7 Proform Roller Rocker Arms
*1987 GT 5.0 camshaft (Most aggressive stock one I'm told)
*New high-flow water pump
*Explorer upper and lower intake
*24lb Ford Racing Injectors
*New Ford Racing 70mm TB and Elbow adapter
*Adjustable fuel regulator, set at 40psi
*Stock fuel rails, alternator, distributor, PS pump, new a/c, stock fuel pump(have new one, just not in yet)
*EGR intact, smog pump delete
*New Cap, Rotor, and Wires. New Coil
*BBK Shorty headers modded to fit p heads
*BBK Xpipe with cats, and 2 new O2 sensors
*C&L 76mm Mass Air System for 24lb inj.
*New Battery

*New clutch(Dual Friction) and "Rebuilt" t-5(All hardened gears installed), Billit short-throw shifter.

*Still to install, 3.73 gears, traclok rebuild, Bosch 255lph fuel pump

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

Installed it yesterday, found a fuel leak, so fixed that today, it was an oring on the regulator. Tried to start it today, still won't turn over. Fuel pump engages, Starter engages and turns motor, but it won't crank. Replaced starter. Seems to try to start better, but still won't crank. I've checked all fuses-ALL GOOD. Checked voltage at tps, distributor, coil, ign module, IAC--ALL GOOD. Check a plug for fire, it fires.

At a loss, can't think of what else to try. PLEASE HELP.

*Still to install, 3.73 gears, traclok rebuild, Bosch 255lph fuel pump

Adam95GT · Mar 18, 2009

check grounds

crogers813 · Mar 18, 2009

How many grounds to the engine are there? I can just think of the one right under the water pump. You think it could be distributor?

toyman · Mar 18, 2009

crogers813;7845638Starter engages and turns motor said:
I'm confused. You say starter engages and turns motor. To me this means the motor is cranking. Are you saying that the starter engages and tries to crank but doesn't as if the motor were seized? Have you tried to manually rotate the motor with the plugs removed or using the starter? This is a crate engine, correct? Almost short of a cylinder being filled with fluid it should crank. Try removing the plugs and see if it will turn over.

The O.G. · Mar 18, 2009

need fuel?

isnt there a fuel pump cutoff switch, leaft off by accident

plugs wet?

crogers813 · Mar 18, 2009

toyman said:
I'm confused. You say starter engages and turns motor. To me this means the motor is cranking. Are you saying that the starter engages and tries to crank but doesn't as if the motor were seized? Have you tried to manually rotate the motor with the plugs removed or using the starter? This is a crate engine, correct? Almost short of a cylinder being filled with fluid it should crank. Try removing the plugs and see if it will turn over.

No, it is not a crate motor, the shortblock was from ford, rest was by me.

The starter turns the motor, but the engine does not start. Motor turns by hand, and turns with starter, just doesn't fire. Spark plugs are good, and fire against block when removed. I can smell gas in the chamber when I pull the plug. Not sure what else.

toyman · Mar 18, 2009

crogers813 said:
No, it is not a crate motor, the shortblock was from ford, rest was by me.

The starter turns the motor, but the engine does not start. Motor turns by hand, and turns with starter, just doesn't fire. Spark plugs are good, and fire against block when removed. I can smell gas in the chamber when I pull the plug. Not sure what else.

Okay, engine cranks but will not start. Has a whole different perspective.

From what you are describing everything electrical appears okay. Have you confirmed that the dizzy was put in correctly and that the timing is correct. The firing order for that engine is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 counterclockwise from #1.

If there is fuel and spark (and you say there is) and the timing (dizzy is correct) and firing order is correct, it should start. It may not necessarily idle well but it should start.

crogers813 · Mar 18, 2009

toyman said:
Okay, engine cranks but will not start. Has a whole different perspective.

From what you are describing everything electrical appears okay. Have you confirmed that the dizzy was put in correctly and that the timing is correct. The firing order for that engine is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 counterclockwise from #1.

If there is fuel and spark (and you say there is) and the timing (dizzy is correct) and firing order is correct, it should start. It may not necessarily idle well but it should start.

Dizzy is the only thing I can think of too. Just not sure how to test it to see if it works still. My pos and neg cables are nasty too, so I'm going to replace those tomorrow and see.

toyman · Mar 18, 2009

crogers813 said:
Dizzy is the only thing I can think of too. Just not sure how to test it to see if it works still. My pos and neg cables are nasty too, so I'm going to replace those tomorrow and see.

The dizzy is working as you said you have spark. I was concerned as to whether it was installed correctly to match the TDC for timing on #1 cylinder.

Just a caution. If you have done a lot of cranking and gas is being dumped into the cylinders make sure that you are not washing them. I would check the oil for gasoline contamination. It's best to dump the oil now if contaminated. If you run the engine with gas contaminated oil you run the risk of destroying the engine.

HISSIN50 · Mar 19, 2009

I agree with Richard. Be sure that firing order is correct. If not done already, confirm fuel pressure. You should see 30 PSI +.

Make sure your plugs are not fouled.

Other considerations are the IAC and MAF.

fastgtfairlane · Mar 19, 2009

try this, remove plug #1, turn engine by hand until you hear air escape from plug hole, then line up on 0 on the balancer. then remove dizzy cap and see where the rotor is pointing. it should be pointing in the 1 oclock position. if not then turn the engine until the rotor is in the 1 oclock then remove dizzy and move the engine back to tdc. that way the oil pump shaft will line up and the dizzy will install correctly.

99FiveOh · Mar 19, 2009

If you get Fuel, Spark, and correct timing then the engine MUST start! It has no choice. You've already confirmed the first two, so it's as simple as improper timing of the engine. We see it time and time again. Even the veterans get this wrong from time to time.

I'd pull the dizzy completely out, get the motor back at zero as described above and restab the dizzy with the rotor pointing to the "1" on the cap. If it's pretty close to that, but not right on, the car will still start up, then you can get it spot on with a timing light.

crogers813 · Mar 19, 2009

I have pulled and reset the dizzy at least 10 times. I've checked the plugs, they are not too fouled, only ran about a week before the rebuild, same with the cap, rotor and wires. I've checked the firing order. The fuel pump sounds like it comes on, and when I pull the plug I can smell fuel, but maybe it's not making enough pressure, idk. I'm getting a pressure gauge from work tomorrow to check what it is actually at. The pump is original, so maybe after I put in the 255lph it woill work? The IAC is good and clean, and it worked before the build. The MAF meter is new and the electronics are the old ones which worked before the build. Other than changing the cal tube in the MAF meter, I don't have to do anything else for the 24lb injectors, right? Battery is brand new, starter is new. I've checked the grounds. The pos and neg cables aren't pretty, but they don't have any resistance either. Should I try starting it without the MAF and tubing connected?

95Vert383AOD · Mar 20, 2009

I'm with everyone else....its the timing.....you could randomly stab the distributor down 500 times....but if its in the wrong spot it wont start. #1 piston needs to be up. I don't recommend it but .........I personally put a ratchet on the crank bolt and turn and a screw driver in the #1 Plug hole and feel for the piston to come up with the screw driver. (Backyard Mechanic Techniques)

After you get the #1 piston up. (Passenger front) The rotor needs to point to the #1 brass terminal on the cap when the distributor is dropped in. thats usually at about 11 o'clock on the distributor.

~Chris

99FiveOh · Mar 20, 2009

What Chris said, but the piston comes up TWICE per cycle. You need to make sure it's up on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke. The way you know it's on the compression stroke, you'll feel air escaping from around your finger(while holding your finger on the spark plug hole on #1 cylinder).

95Vert383AOD · Mar 20, 2009

Hmm i forget but can't you also tell by the timing mark on the balancer???

KamiKaziDK · Mar 20, 2009

95Vert383AOD said:
Hmm i forget but can't you also tell by the timing mark on the balancer???

Yeah, the balancer will be at 0 when you're TDC on the power stroke. If the ground cables are gunked up, it would still crank but possibly not be grounded good enough to fire up. Sounds like a fuel delivery problem almost though if you're getting spark for sure. check your fuel pressure on the rail

toyman · Mar 20, 2009

KamiKaziDK said:
Yeah, the balancer will be at 0 when you're TDC on the power stroke. If the ground cables are gunked up, it would still crank but possibly not be grounded good enough to fire up. Sounds like a fuel delivery problem almost though if you're getting spark for sure. check your fuel pressure on the rail

Yes, but I think it will be also at 0 at the top of the exhaust stroke and he wants it to be 0 at the top of the compression stroke.

I don't recall, but have you changed the fuel filter? You want to have a steady pressure >30 psi while cranking. The point I want to make clear is that while you may have static >30 psi but the pressure must be maintained as the engine turns over.

Also what do you mean by resetting the dizzy 10 times? If it was in the correct position (pointing to #1 with when #1 piston is at the top of the compression cycle) it wouldn't need to be reset.

crogers813 · Mar 20, 2009

Okay, here's what I have tried the last 2 days, and still no go.

Fuel pressure reads 40 on the regulator. I'm getting enough fuel that when I checked the plugs, you could smell the gas and they were damp or wet depending on which cylinder.

I have pulled every plug, re-ran the wires and put on a new cap and rotor. Dizzy is stabbed at O TDC.

I cleaned the IAC, it it looks good. All the electronics are getting voltage. all the plugs are firing, checked each one against the block.

Air intake is brand new, so I don't know why it wouldn't work.

It almost seems like the starter isn't turning the engine fast enough for it to catch. Is there a way to determine if it is? It is a brand new Hi-torque starter.

Don't know what else to try.

toyman · Mar 20, 2009

crogers813 said:
Okay, here's what I have tried the last 2 days, and still no go.

Fuel pressure reads 40 on the regulator. I'm getting enough fuel that when I checked the plugs, you could smell the gas and they were damp or wet depending on which cylinder.

I have pulled every plug, re-ran the wires and put on a new cap and rotor. Dizzy is stabbed at O TDC.

I cleaned the IAC, it it looks good. All the electronics are getting voltage. all the plugs are firing, checked each one against the block.

Air intake is brand new, so I don't know why it wouldn't work.

It almost seems like the starter isn't turning the engine fast enough for it to catch. Is there a way to determine if it is? It is a brand new Hi-torque starter.

Don't know what else to try.

Okay. Do you have a battery charger preferably one with a start mode. Try that to see if the starter cranks the engine at a faster rate.

New Engine won't start, HELP!!!!

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