New Mustang spindles available soon

degins · May 26, 2005

Pictures of new Mustang spindles

I'm not offering anything for sale so don't anyone get their panties in a wad. I just want to share these links to photos of my mold models for a 67-73/Granada type disc brake spindle and caliper bracket. I am also working on dust shields and similar brake spindles with 65-66 geometry. Machined prototypes cast from steel will be made this week. All will have the beefy later model type spindle pin.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/PastedImagea.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/DSC00083a.JPG

latamud · May 26, 2005

Why not make a drop spindle?

Route666 · May 26, 2005

Fantastic!

tweet66 · May 26, 2005

How did you go about making the molds and what materials did you use? I have a few ideas for some interior parts I'd like to make molds for and am very interested in learning the process.

Ken

degins · May 26, 2005

latamud said:
Why not make a drop spindle?

Mainly because of the economics. Each spindle design cost alot to have modeled and the producers require very large order quantities. I doubt the market for drop spindles is that large as compared to the market for a basic OEM based economical disc brake swap spindle.

My next design will be a similar spindle that has 65-66 steering geometry.

degins · May 26, 2005

tweet66 said:
How did you go about making the molds and what materials did you use? I have a few ideas for some interior parts I'd like to make molds for and am very interested in learning the process.

Ken

The pictures show a wax core that was cast from a master mold. The process is called investment casting (sometimes called lost wax process). A master mold (a negative of the part) is made from some material like plaster or wood or machined from metal. The master mold must be sized to account for expansion or contraction that later occurs when the pour material solidifies. They also have pour galleys and reservoirs built in. Positives are made from the masters with wax. The wax masters are coated with a refactory material (ceramic or plaster type material) and are typically ganged together in "trees". The tree is heated and the wax is melted or burned out. Molten metal (or perhaps plastic) is poured in and solidified. The refractory material is beat and blasted away and the tree is broken down to individual pieces. Machining and heat treatment finishes the part. QC is by acoustical analysis of each part and Xray analysis of samples.

Plastic parts are probably made by injection molding. In any case, the design and modeling are expensive and large productions runs are required.

krash kendall · May 26, 2005

Would an accurate discription of you goal be, "To create a direct-swap spindle component that requires no additional steering or suspension modifications other than the purchase of new rotors, calipers and master cylinder."?

Capt Dan · May 26, 2005

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allcarfan · May 26, 2005

parts like that are fairly easy to make. A person at home could easily sandcasta part like that. However, modifying a part would be quite difficult.

66 BLAKE 96 · May 26, 2005

degins said:
My next design will be a similar spindle that has 65-66 steering geometry.

I believe this one is going to be the out-of-the-park hit. There is a whole market of people just like myself, that did the Granada swap years ago and love the brakes, but are only recently understanding/experiencing the effects of the altered geometry from the Granada. I'm fine with keeping my Granada set up, but I sure would like my old geometry back.

Very cool to see this happening either way.

danny clemens · May 26, 2005

66 BLAKE 96 said:
I believe this one is going to be the out-of-the-park hit. There is a whole market of people just like myself, that did the Granada swap years ago and love the brakes, but are only recently understanding/experiencing the effects of the altered geometry from the Granada. I'm fine with keeping my Granada set up, but I sure would like my old geometry back.

Very cool to see this happening either way.

I have Granada spindles that I am going to be putting on my 66 F/B. What are the effects of the altered geometry and what is altered? What is better about the old geometry?

degins · May 26, 2005

allcarfan said:
parts like that are fairly easy to make. A person at home could easily sandcasta part like that. However, modifying a part would be quite difficult.

Oh, I must be tool deprived. I didn't realise that most guys have facility to pour molten steel in their garages.

If you are refering to the wax models, they can't just be made by using an existing part as a sand cast die. A sand cast die for steel must be oversized to account for shrinkage of the metal as it cools. The die also needs galleys and reservoirs and must be configured to support the part and avoid distortion as it cools.

66 BLAKE 96 · May 26, 2005

danny clemens said:
I have Granada spindles that I am going to be putting on my 66 F/B. What are the effects of the altered geometry and what is altered? What is better about the old geometry?

A little light reading:
http://www.sunflower.com/~vervaecke/our_story.htm

I've really enjoyed my Granada brakes/spindles, but I am aware that it's not ideal. I would like to upgrade to a spindle with the original geometry, especially when I move to larger (17") wheels.

krash kendall · May 26, 2005

allcarfan said:
parts like that are fairly easy to make. A person at home could easily sandcasta part like that. However, modifying a part would be quite difficult.

Just noticed your new signature. We're not talking about making wax candles here.

degins · May 26, 2005

krash kendall said:
Would an accurate discription of you goal be, "To create a direct-swap spindle component that requires no additional steering or suspension modifications other than the purchase of new rotors, calipers and master cylinder."?

That is partially correct. Here is an answer to a similar question on FYI Ford. krash, note the last sentence.

There are 4 main advantages for these parts.
1. The obvious fact is that they are new castings. They are fabricated from grade 1045 steel, not iron, and are not fatigued or spun from 40 years of use. And before someone pipes in, Ford steering knuckles (we call them spindles) from that era were CAST not forged. These will be investment cast; a method that yields a product that has a better finish than the original sand cast method.

2. They are more heavily constructed than the early spindles, and the pin (the part that the bearings mount on) are the larger size that was used in 70-73 and Granada. The heavier spindle pin is ideal for large width tires.

3. They allow the use of the larger and economical 11" rotors and calipers from Granada or 70-73 Mustang.

4. These spindles were originally engineered for disc brake application, unlike add on brackets systems used on early spindles.

I am doing this work because Granada spindles are becoming hard and expensive to find in commercial quantities, and they require considerable effort to refurbish to acceptable commercial standards. I am also reluctant to sell used parts. The new spindles will be QC'ed by acoustical analysis and sample Xray analysis.

I will soon begin working on a spindle that is Granada like except that the steering arm geometry will be the same as 65-66. I will eventually offer caliper brackets which will allow the use of 70-73 style calipers and perhaps late model Mustang calipers, although my interest is in providing an economical reliable disc brake swap for the typical Mustang owner's use, not in performance parts. I am aiming to provide a complete swap kit made from all new parts that includes the spindles, dust shields, bearings and seals, hoses, mounting hardware, calipers (refurbs)and pads, and slotted rotors, adapter fittings, and a true drum/disc combination valve for less than $550 or $625 with outer tie rods and master cylinder.

Marshall · May 27, 2005

What a fantastic venture - I suggest you research the 65/66 market before you decide as everyone seems to desire a lower front (with good reason the stock height looks silly) however short springs are a very poor way to do the job.

Nothing beats a dropped spindle for lowering a car and maintaining geometry.

krash kendall · May 27, 2005

degins said:
I will soon begin working on a spindle that is Granada like except that the steering arm geometry will be the same as 65-66. I will eventually offer caliper brackets which will allow the use of 70-73 style calipers and perhaps late model Mustang calipers, although my interest is in providing an economical reliable disc brake swap for the typical Mustang owner's use, not in performance parts. I am aiming to provide a complete swap kit made from all new parts that includes the spindles, dust shields, bearings and seals, hoses, mounting hardware, calipers (refurbs)and pads, and slotted rotors, adapter fittings, and a true drum/disc combination valve for less than $550 or $625 with outer tie rods and master cylinder.

Awesome undertaking! As a designer and machinist in a specialized manufacturing company, I understand all the steps you have to go through just to get to the wax model stage. Well done and keep up the good work! And yes, I know it's called a knuckle. But when you are constantly bombarded with the incorrect term commonly given to something, your vocabulary sometimes get compromised!

paintballtommy · May 27, 2005

id deffinitely be interested in a set for my 68. good work

allcarfan · May 27, 2005

degins said:
Oh, I must be tool deprived. I didn't realise that most guys have facility to pour molten steel in their garages.

If you are refering to the wax models, they can't just be made by using an existing part as a sand cast die. A sand cast die for steel must be oversized to account for shrinkage of the metal as it cools. The die also needs galleys and reservoirs and must be configured to support the part and avoid distortion as it cools.

Actually, the tools are out there. And it is, indeed, a simple procedure. A guy that I attend training with does it on old...OLD car parts from the 20s. He actually pays people to send him their part, he makes the mold, send them back their part, and then makes that particular part by the dozen. He does it in is shop behind his house.

I was just commenting on how the procedure is done. If you outsource, that is great. If not, and you know what you are doing...thats great too.

Hope the design works great.

allcarfan · May 27, 2005

krash kendall said:
Just noticed your new signature. We're not talking about making wax candles here.

That was a pretty far stretch there.

how do you know I am not making steel candles?...duh

New Mustang spindles available soon

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