New stang owner in need of help 65 fastback

matt0matic · May 21, 2008

I have a 65 fastback that I want to make into a 10-11 sec street car. So any advice on what suspension and body modifications (and prices/links to go with them) to accheive my goals.

I want a 385 series big block (429/460) so a IFS is absolutely mandatory. What brands should I consider? What are the advantages and disadvantages to the different IFS's out there?

I’ve looked a subframe connectors and body stiffening kits, what are the pros and cons of them for a street car? What brand is generally preferred?

And for the rear end I find the biggest dilemma; I want a really low stance to the car and it to run decent on the street and all the while I would like it to handle better than a little car with a heavy big block =P...

IRS?
4-Link with tubs?
3-link Watts style suspension?
Leaf springs?

I’d like the car to seat like the photo below (SN65 stang) but prefer a bigger rear tire (tubbed?)

And on a side note, would a good size slick be needed to get the big block power to the ground? Or can i go with the normal 8-9" wheel with a sticky street tire.. The reasoning for me wanting a large rear tire is for my end goals of a 10 sec Mustang, but if it can be done with a smaller tire I’m open to the advice.

Thanks in advance,
Matt

dodgestang · May 21, 2008

What is the driving force behind it needing to be a big block?

If you think it is need, then we can correct that perception
If it is want...so be it.

chromedog · May 21, 2008

im in total agreement with dodgestang... a 351 can be stroked to 427, without the weight. loose the steel hood, swap on an aluminum intake, headers, move the battery to the trunk,and the additional heft of the 351 is null. stiffen the unibody with a set of sub connectors, (competition engineering makes a good set) 9 inch rear with either a locker or a 4 pinion t- lock, caltrac bars,maybe a 150 shot of giggle juice, and youre there! i saw a 65 coupe at an mca show last fall, 347 stroker, all the mods ive listed, in talking to the owner i mentioned that he had a nice mid 11 sec. car. he kind of laughed, and said that the car ran 10.20's all day long! and showed a timing slip to back it up!(it was framed in the trunk, beside a picture of the car with the right front wheel in the air.) bottom line is this, dont sell a small block short, theres a reason the 5.0 mustang is the most popular bracket car going right now, even here in bowtie land.

65fastbackresto · May 21, 2008

He should just name his car Overkill

right off the bat. You should give these guys an ear man, they know what they are talking about. I personally have had some hot chevy 350 motors, but my little 302 is a handfull, and would blow any chevy I ever owned or raced off the road any day.

Your gonna wind up with something to show off in the garage cause your not gonna be able to afford gas for it once you do all that stuff.

matt0matic · May 21, 2008

I want a 385 big block for a couple reasons: I want the car to be special and different from all the other 64-66 Stangs with Windsor based engines, no way in hell will you ever get a SBF to sound like a BBF. The parts are more available to me due to a friend of mine having BBFs in his race car. (SCJ heads, short block etc)

The engine is not what I’m more worried about; the car will have a 351W until i finish up my 460 build. And if it isn’t getting a big block in it I would opt for the CHI headed Windor build (http://www.chiheads.com)

I’m worried about suspension needed to get a decent handling car that can make sub 11 sec passes and can handle decent on the street. And a great IFS to fit the 460 or the bigger Cleveland style heads.

Thanks for the imput so far. But tell me whats needed suspension wise for a awesome street handling car that hooks up hard on the track!

:SNSign:

dodgestang · May 21, 2008

What type of street handling are you looking for?

You going to be using this for 80-85 cruising down the freeway and zipping around exit ramps behind some Ms and Vettes like I enjoy doing or handling on the street sufficient enough to get you back and forth from the track, cruise at highway speed and simply not drive off the exit ramps?

Do you have a budget for the suspension?

For what its worth my 65 with the N/A Cleveland stroker could prob run low, low 11s (maybe better) if I took off the road course style suspension I run and went with a full drag setup, I had to make ALOT of compromises to have a car that will:

Be a street car I can drive to the work anytime I want to
Run between 11.5 and 11.9 at the 1/4 (because I don't consider a car with a 6 point bar setup which is required for sub 11.5 a viable street car)
Be able to run somewhat respectably at open track event

All I do is change tires now

Are you planning a N/A setup or will you be in the 10s with a power adder?

matt0matic · May 21, 2008

Thanks for the replies so far!

I want the best of everything, N20 will find itself on the car at one point or the other, so would have no problems if I run mid 11s NA and 10s on the spray.

I’d love to be able to play with the Ms and Vettes and even the open track sounds like a ton of fun (something different from a drag racers perspective). But I don’t want to give up to much straight line traction for the curves.

So what IFS do you suggest and I’ve read/seen the RSS front suspension (http://www.rrs-online.com/shocktowerproducts.php) can fit a big block in between the shock towers with their notching kits; it but I’ve never seen it done. And what in your opinion is the best of the MustangII style suspension.

And what rear suspension for a car similar to what you have described, Dodge.
Like I’ve said I’ve looked into tubbing the car with Chassiswork’s back half kit and 4-link ) http://www.cachassisworks.com/iwwidb.pvx?;multi_item_submit) but don’t want to lose so much street ability just to fit more tire under the car (and I won’t need that big of a tire would be more for the looks)
The RSS 3-Link (http://www.rrs-online.com/3linkproducts.php)
The new Evolution rear suspension
TCP 3-bar (http://www.reenmachine.com/shop/home.php?cat=272)
The IRS (kinda expensive and never liked the idea of adding more than necessary moving parts)
Or just a nice leaf spring set up..

dodgestang · May 21, 2008

My personal opinion is I don't like most MII setups so I will not weigh in on that ;P
(I like my shock towers)

For the rear right now I run a 5 leaf with the EVM watts and under rider traction bars; the car improved considerably at speed with the addition of the watts over the straight 5 leaf setup. I have their 3 link sitting on the work bench waiting for me to install it. I also use stock wheel wells and a high quality 255 40 17 tire on the rear on an 8 inch rim.

If you install this however you can make room for the motor
http://www.griggsracing.com/index.p..._1080&osCsid=946fe5ef8f2cef6b7addc2e9b765b2d2

matt0matic · May 21, 2008

Why no love for the IFS?

Keep me updated on the EVM and how it works out for you

And 10k for suspension??? Does it make the car fly?

Anyone else want to throw in their two cents?

dodgestang · May 22, 2008

matt0matic said:
Why no love for the IFS?

Because IMO my car with improved stock style suspension in the front handles better than most of the Mii kits I see. Strickly my opinion. I am sure there are plenty of people who will argue they think the Mii is better. I would look for proof from a road course with time slips on similarly powered cars one with an Mii and one with a stock style...but those don't exist to make a true apples to apples comparison.

matt0matic said:
And 10k for suspension??? Does it make the car fly?

So there is a budget...what is it? And yes, you will fly around the track quite well with it.

Looking at this holistically....you are already posting up things that will end up in area 4-5k (or more) for the complete front suspension and then another 3-4k for the rear suspension....what's another 1-2k

matt0matic · May 22, 2008

Nick, thanks for all your help so far,

I’m pretty open ended on budget, I want the car done right, and I want it to perform the best it could. And I'm in no hurry to get my fastback on the street so I can wait to accumulate all the funds.

What I'm looking at right now is changing from a 385 based build to a Cleveland headed Windsor build; for less weight and less needed room in the engine bay (all the 'Clevors' in the Engine Masters build have me optimistic).

And as for suspension; in the rear I'm leaning towards a Watts style 3-link. EVM. Griggs. RRS. From what I've read the 3-link/watts is primer for the curves but how does it perform on the strip? And how does a TCP 4bar ‘G-bar’ compare to the others?

And for the front I'm still up in the air; after reading some of the downfalls of MII based suspension I'm starting to shy away from that. Where are some places I can search for a front suspension with modified shock towers to clear the Cleveland (CHI) heads? I’ve seen the RRS, MII, and Griggs all remove/notch the shock towers; are those the only options?

dodgestang · May 22, 2008

matt0matic said:
Nick, thanks for all your help so far,

I’m pretty open ended on budget, I want the car done right, and I want it to perform the best it could. And I'm in no hurry to get my fastback on the street so I can wait to accumulate all the funds.

What I'm looking at right now is changing from a 385 based build to a Cleveland headed Windsor build; for less weight and less needed room in the engine bay (all the 'Clevors' in the Engine Masters build have me optimistic).

And as for suspension; in the rear I'm leaning towards a Watts style 3-link. EVM. Griggs. RRS. From what I've read the 3-link/watts is primer for the curves but how does it perform on the strip? And how does a TCP 4bar ‘G-bar’ compare to the others?

And for the front I'm still up in the air; after reading some of the downfalls of MII based suspension I'm starting to shy away from that. Where are some places I can search for a front suspension with modified shock towers to clear the Cleveland (CHI) heads? I’ve seen the RRS, MII, and Griggs all remove/notch the shock towers; are those the only options?

You could put the 67 shock towers in and/or simply notch them and the motor would fit, I have my cleveland installed with the stock shock towers. As soon as I put the new 3 link in the rear I will back at the 1/4 mile and will be able to report back if there was any change (better/worse) in my times.

65FBE2 · May 22, 2008

I have the RRS fornt stuts and would not go any other way. Its not the best drag only setup but it is very good at doing both cornering and straight line. It is very strong and lighter than both stock and MII. With the notching kit you can fit any engine in the ford family into the car. Not as much room as a MII but enough to get it in. The rear I would go with the RRS 3 link for the same reason. Most rocker arm or triangleded 4 links will handle very well but with a compromise in drag racing. The 3 link will give you great straight line traction and corner better than most triagulated 4 links. The guys at Autoworks Int. put the RRS 3 link in the car they built called Obsidian. That was about a 1200 hp $200K plus build. They said it hooked up awsome and a lot better than other high end systems they had tried before.

65FBE2 · May 22, 2008

Just call the guys at Autoworks and get their opionion as they install all types of systems. 619-401-6900. I did a lot of research on this subject before I bought and it was advice from people that have been using the products that made me buy RRS. I know that there are a lot of other great systems out there but this stuff was the best fitting and well engineered that I could find at the time. I guess I'm a little bias though

10secgoal · May 22, 2008

65FBE2 said:
That was about a 750 (Maybe)hp $200K plus build.

Fixed !

12sec67 · May 22, 2008

haha, good fix!

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