New Wheels and Tires

65 fastback · Jul 2, 2007

Well, I finally decided to move up to 17" wheels. I really like the American Racing Torq-Thrust D's that I have,
but wanted to fit larger brakes.
I went with the American Racing CL-205's - http://www.wheelsforless.com/search_result.asp?Product_ID=2057800
I got the 17" X 8" with 4.75" backspacing.

It took over 12 weeks to get them and when they showed up they were a little too grey for my liking,
so I taped them off and sprayed the spokes satin black.

I, also, got Falken Azenis RT-615's - 225/45/17 front and 245/45/17 rear.
http://www.falkentire.com/main.htm

I've got the tires mounted and balanced and have test fit them on my car, but I have a little bit of a rubbing issue,
do to the amount of + Caster I run.
I'm going to grind a little of the fender lip and hopefully get them installed and shoot some pictures.

Tim

The new 17" X 8" CL-205's with 225/45/17's next to the old 15" X 7" Torq-Thrust D's with 225/50/15's

iskwezm · Jul 2, 2007

and on the car??????

CanyonCarver515 · Jul 2, 2007

I have found the most beautiful paint for Torq Thrust wheels. Got a can of metallic grey from a GM color. It shows up giving out a tinge of gold/green to the final result. Very 60's. I'll look for the can tonight.

DJCarbine · Jul 2, 2007

My buddy ran the old 215's in a supercharged RSX project. Just upgraded to the 615's. They are nice tires, they just don't like rain. At all.

Jon350 · Jul 3, 2007

65 Fastback............Two things.......... A.) Obviously those tires are suppose to be good tires, but they are not safe in the rain. As such, they are strictly performance tires. Now, in the ultra-performance street tire sector there are two kinds of tires. Tires that slip and tires that grip. There IS after all a reason why the D1 drift series primarily runs these tires. They are in the "slip" category. They possess great tractability and predictability, but lack grip at he edge. THIS is where the Nitto NT-01 tire comes in, the NT-01 is the contender to the RT-615. the NT-01 belongs in the "grip" category. They possess the same wet driving characteristics of the Azenis (or the lack there of), typically cost less that RT-615's, grip MUch harder at the limit where the Azenis fails, have highly predictable composure, excellent turn in response, and wears much slower than the Azenis. Having said this, hopefully after you wear through the current set of Azenis that you've already mounted, maybe you'll look into different options the next time around.

B.) Avoid grinding or cutting the fender lips if at all possible. Especially the front. The preferred method is to roll the front fender lips, this retains the structural integrity of the front fenders WHICH they need. Cutting and or grinding away at that fender lip kills the structural integrity of the fender.

.......just my $.2

65 fastback · Jul 3, 2007

Jon350 said:
65 Fastback............Two things.......... A.) Obviously those tires are suppose to be good tires, but they are not safe in the rain....

I am well aware of the wet performance capabilities of the Azenis. I am, also, well aware of the wet performance capabilities of my 3 previous sets of BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KD's - they are both dry performance street tires. My criteria for my latest purchase was to find an affordable dry performance street tire that was suitable for weekend fair weather use, autocross and open track events. My car does not see the rain. The Azenis was easily the best choice for my application.

Jon350 said:
... As such, they are strictly performance tires. Now, in the ultra-performance street tire sector there are two kinds of tires. Tires that slip and tires that grip. There IS after all a reason why the D1 drift series primarily runs these tires. They are in the "slip" category. They possess great tractability and predictability, but lack grip at he edge....

I don't know who is classifying the Azenis as "slip" tire vs. a "grip" tire. I do know that GrassRoots Motorsports has rated the Falken Azenis as the top rated autocross / opentrack street tire for the past 6 years. Here is a quote from the May '07 issue of GRM -

"The Falken Azenis RT-615 is a frustrating tire from an editorial standpoint. Not because it's tough to write about; it's just that we're getting bored with it winning every street tire autocross comparo. Let's face it, "Falken Wins Again" is a pretty dull headline.
Of course, we're not seriously complaining. Why would we? From an enthusiast's standpoint, we love the Falkens. They're inexpensive - Edge Racing has our 17-inch size bargain-priced at $119 each - and they grip like glue. These tires make every car feel like a Lotus Elise."

While, I will admit they are never going to make a '65 Mustang feel like a Lotus Elise, on this point I will defer to GRM's expertise and real world testing. I would post a link to the GRM quote, but an online subscription is required; I am sure that you could find a May '07 issue if you looked around.

Jon350 said:
... THIS is where the Nitto NT-01 tire comes in, the NT-01 is the contender to the RT-615. the NT-01 belongs in the "grip" category....

Jon, this is comparing apples to oranges. The Falken Azenis RT-615 is a true street tire, the Nitto NT-01 is a track specific race radial. I wouldn't even venture to compare the grip of a street tire to the grip of a R-compound race tire. The Nitto was not even in consideration, as I would never run these on the street.

Jon350 said:
... typically cost less that RT-615's....

Falken Azenis RT-615 - 225/45/17 - $108 each X 2 = $216
Falken Azenis RT-615 - 245/45/17 - $114 each X2 = $228
Total tire package from VulcanTire - $444 -
http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615_t.htm

Nitto NT-01 - 225/45/17 - $164 each X 2 = $328
Nitto NT-01 - 245/45/17 - $174 each X 2 = $348
Total tire package from Discount Tire - $676 -
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/d...false&cs=245&fcpr=&rd=17&ar=45&fcs=false&fcb=

The bang for the buck is pretty hard to beat with the Azenis'.

Jon350 said:
...and wears much slower than the Azenis....

Referring to the manufacturer's websites, the Nitto NT-01 has a treadwear rating of 100 - http://www.nittotire.com/#index.tire.nt01
The Falken Azenis RT-615 has a treadwear rating of 200 - http://www.falkentire.com/main.htm
Based on the standardized Treadwear Rating Guide, the Azenis would have twice the usable tread life of the Nitto. Here I will defer to the manufactures' guidelines.

Also, keep in mind that the Nitto's are a race compound rubber and susceptible to heat cycles. If you drive these on the street for any length of time, you are sure to heat cycle them, thus limiting their useful track life.

Jon350 said:
B.) ...Avoid grinding or cutting the fender lips if at all possible. Especially the front. The preferred method is to roll the front fender lips, this retains the structural integrity of the front fenders WHICH they need. Cutting and or grinding away at that fender lip kills the structural integrity of the fender....

Again, I have to disagree with you. While I am aware that the front fenders are single panel stamped steel and the wheel well lip helps to provide rigidity, grinding away up to 1/2 of the lip has no impact on the structural integrity of the fender. Keeping the lip at a 90* bend (even with 1/2 the material removed) is probably preferable to lips that are rolled flat.
Also, I am not about to risk damage to my finished paint job by rolling the lips.

By the way, the car in your signature looks great! And nice to see you out dodging cones!

Tim

65 fastback · Jul 3, 2007

iskwezm said:
and on the car??????

I was going to wait until I got a good wash and wax on the car, then wait for a nice sunset shot somewhere before shooting a picture, but I'm a picture post whore.

Jon350 · Jul 3, 2007

65 Fastback I'm starting to see what angle your coming from. I essentially wasn't sure what your hopes or intentions for the wheel/tire combo were.

Because I've been running in road race, time attack, and open track drift session with my S2000 for the last two years and have seen soo many kids purchase the Azenis hoping for the best grip ever becuase they saw their favorite drift driver use them. I guess I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that.

I suppose if the Azenis need to double as street duty then hell, for the price, why not.

As far as my knowledge of the tires, I've raced with both the RT-615 and NT-01's. Furthermore, I've had the chance to talk to Nitto engineers at two different race events regarding the characteristics of the NT-01. And I have to say, DAMN....they're the next best thing to slicks. As far as heat cycling, they don't require any from the get go. They jump up to operating temperature very quickly for auto-x circumstances, but maintain a steady temperature under constant duress.

Moreover, I've raced on the same set of NT-01's with great sucess at the Streets of Willow this summer for 3 events (in each one i covered 100-150 miles). They still have enough tread left on them for one more hard event. lol......I'm starting to sound like a Nitto rep.

Lastly, I rolled all four fender lips on my stang..It took a good afternoon because I did it slowly and with caution. I didn't chip or crack any paint (Maybe i was just lucky). What I worry about in your situation is that with the extra grip and height of your tires youmight encounter extreme slip angles while your out on the track. This has the potential to lean your tires (more specifically the front) to the outside of the car so much that your "cut" fender lip might get a chance to actually graze your flexing tires. In essence, this has the potential rip open your tires while pushing the car hard. THAT is primarily why i chose to to roll the lips. At this point it sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind, and while I tend to prefer my method, this is a scenario where you can say "...to each, his own..."

I think it's awesome that you too have the tenacity to bring your street fastback to the track and still run it on the streets without worrying. Right on.

.....Funny, right before I wrote this, you posted more pictures up......I was going to ask you to do that =) This helps me better illustrate my tire slip angle theory I was throwing out there. It looks as though you haven't really dropped the front end of the car. IF you decide to, the tires will naturally be tucked up past the fenders, then you'll see what I'm talking about with the possbilities of tire rub during extreme cornering.

I dropped the front of mine 2" and have some good camber going. So no matter what I do, the combination of camber and fender lip rolling will never let me rubber the tire to the fender........other than that........your lookN good

4MuscleMachines · Jul 4, 2007

Nice car 65 Fastback, I can see how the original color of the wheels would have not looked right. The satin black centers nicely match your car and it looks much better with the 17's.

ga289stocker · Jul 4, 2007

Hot Dam, that things looking real sexy now....nice choice and paint on the wheels. Car looks pretty waxed up and clean to me...

65 fastback · Jul 5, 2007

4MuscleMachines said:
Nice car 65 Fastback, I can see how the original color of the wheels would have not looked right. The satin black centers nicely match your car and it looks much better with the 17's.

Thanks 4Muscle Machines

ga289stocker said:
Hot Dam, that things looking real sexy now....nice choice and paint on the wheels. Car looks pretty waxed up and clean to me...

Thanks ga289stroker

65 fastback · Sep 4, 2007

Now that I have the wheels/tires mounted and have checked the clearance and run an autocross; I could definately go one size bigger out back. I'm sure that I have enough room for a 255/45/17 tire out back, but the front is maxed out at 225/45/17.

Tim

Soaring1 · Sep 4, 2007

I usually am not turned on by any of the aftermarket 17X8 wheels, but those CL-205's are a really good looking wheel. They don't jump out at you like most do.
Good choice.

CraigMBA · Sep 4, 2007

What brakes do you have on there?

180 Out · Sep 5, 2007

65 fastback said:
Now that I have the wheels/tires mounted and have checked the clearance and run an autocross; I could definately go one size bigger out back. I'm sure that I have enough room for a 255/45/17 tire out back, but the front is maxed out at 225/45/17.

That's interesting; I would think you could go quicker around the cones if you downsized the rears, so they're not as wide as the fronts. All I ever get from my '65 Mustang and my '70 Cougar is plow, plow, plow. So I would not think to go bigger in the rear, at least not for tight corners like in the autocross.

65 fastback · Sep 5, 2007

180 Out said:
That's interesting; I would think you could go quicker around the cones if you downsized the rears, so they're not as wide as the fronts. All I ever get from my '65 Mustang and my '70 Cougar is plow, plow, plow. So I would not think to go bigger in the rear, at least not for tight corners like in the autocross.

The wide rear tires help to provide traction, both in acceleration and cornering (keeping the rear in place).

As for the plow, plow, plow; I'm still working on that. But I have made some significant improvements by going with Global West upper control arms relocated 1.75" and running 1.5* negative camber. I think I'm going to go back and ask for a full 2* of negative camber next.

Tim

65 fastback · Sep 5, 2007

Soaring1 said:
I usually am not turned on by any of the aftermarket 17X8 wheels, but those CL-205's are a really good looking wheel. They don't jump out at you like most do.
Good choice.

Thanks, I think 16's look best on the '65-'66's, but I wanted that 13" disc rotor and a the better tire selection.

CraigMBA said:
What brakes do you have on there?

They're the Global West Category 5 kit. I really like them, they use a 2 piece rotor with a nice billet aluminum hub. Also, I bought the 11.75" kit when I had my 15" wheels and now that I have upgraded to 17" wheels, I just needed the rotor disc and caliper bracket to upgrade to 13" rotors.

dodgestang · Sep 5, 2007

65 fastback said:
I think I'm going to go back and ask for a full 2* of negative camber next.

Tim

It will help and surprise you how it sticks.

It also helps you sneak in 245 on the front without rolling the fenders if you go to 2.5 but they are a bear a low speed on a manual 16:1 car

65 fastback · Sep 6, 2007

dodgestang said:
It will help and surprise you how it sticks.

It also helps you sneak in 245 on the front without rolling the fenders if you go to 2.5 but they are a bear a low speed on a manual 16:1 car

I've got to see your car in person one day, so I can check out how you stuffed those tires in there.

I think I have the inner and outer clearances to go up to at least a 235/40 in front, but my problem is the front of the wheel well opening. When I first installed these 225/45/17's I had rubbing in lower front. I rolled them up slightly, but it is still very close. If you look at this picture, you can see how tight it is in the front and turning these fat tires closes that gap. I really don't want to give up any caster, but if I go bigger I may have to.

Tim

CraigMBA · Sep 6, 2007

If you add caster with shims instead of shortening the radius rods you can get that wheel back (more square) in the wheelhouse.........

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