No Distributer Advance This Won't Be An Easy One.

Mmulisha84

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Aug 6, 2017
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3 weeks ago I picked up this 91 LX I knew it had a running issue and took it knowing it would be a project. Motor had broken the oil pump drive so long story short I yanked the motor and dropped in a 2000 Explorer motor, replaced every gasket in the process. Fired the car for the first time and checked fuel psi it was good set timing at 10 degrees shut it down plugged the spout back in and fired it back up no spark advance and really poor idle. This has been an on going diagnosis for a week and half now so I will just skip to the cars specs and what I've done. Car has a T5 swap the previous owner did. Still has the auto ecu and auto o2 harness. The white and pink from the ignition was cut and a new wire spliced in going to the solenoid I fixed that the other day and got rid of the code 67 it kept throwing. Car has all the EGR and Smog stuff removed. With the car came a lot of new and old parts including fuel pump wires plugs 2 distributors 3 TFI modules IAC TPS CTS all new injectors just to name a few. Previous owner had thrown part after part at this thing. I have set the idle then the tps I have tried all the TFIs they all do the same except the factory motorcraft one that one will only run with the spout removed once you plug it back in the motor stalls when you try to restart it will fire for a second then shut off. I have also checked all the tfi wires 3rd wire has no voltage while running. Spout unplugged it 4.5-5v and 2.5-3.5 when it's plugged in. I have ohmed the spout back to the ecu and it's good as well. I've checked and cleaned all the grounds including the one from the injector harness. I'm at a loss. I am a mechanic by trade and very google and for savvy but this one has got me. The carb intake I have laying in my basement is looking very good right now.
So please tell me where do I go from here.
 
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I call dibs on the explorer intake lol..
IMG_20170722_083027569.jpg
 
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Let's start here...

How the TFI ignition works in 86-93 model Mustangs:

Revised 2 June 2017 to add canned air cooling test

Tools needed: DVM, noid light, safety pin.

Theory of operation:
The TFI ignition in 86-93 Mustangs has 4 main components: the ignition switch, the coil, the TFI module and the PIP sensor inside the distributor.

The ignition switch gets power from the two yellow wires that are supplied power by a fuse link located in the wiring harness that connects to the starter solenoid.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif


I.) The coil is mounted on the driver’s side strut tower on most EFI Mustangs. It gets power from a red/green wire and a brown/pink wire from the ignition switch. That wire from the ignition switch feeds a 20 gauge blue fuse link that connects to the red/green wire. The fuse link protects the wiring and the ignition switch, since the fuse link for the two yellow power supply wires has a much higher current rating. Without the smaller fuse link protecting the smaller wiring used in the ignition circuit, a short there would cause the red/green wire to overheat and burn up.

II.) The TFI module is mounted on the side of the distributor and supplies the ground for the coil. Every automotive power supply circuit uses the ground as the return path to carry power back to the negative side of the battery. The TFI switches the tan/yellow wire coming from the coil to ground. It gets power from the red/green wire when the ignition switch is in the Run position. The red/lt blue wire supplies a signal to turn on more power (dwell time) when the engine is cranking. The increased dwell can cause excessive current draw if the red/blue wire remains energized when the ignition switch is in the Run position. The trigger signal comes from the PIP sensor when cranking and the computer when the engine is running. The SPOUT jumper plug enables computer controlled spark advance. When the SPOUT is removed, spark advance is locked at the setting determined by the mechanical position of the distributor.

III.) The PIP sensor is in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. It is a Hall effect magnetic sensor that senses a change in the magnetic field when one of the slots in the shutter wheel uncovers the sensor. Then it supplies a pulse that triggers the TFI module to provide a ground to the ignition coil. A bad PIP will often set code 14 in the computer and cause hot start problems. Replacing the PIP sensor requires removal of the distributor and pressing the gear off the distributor shaft to expose the sensor. For most people, a remanufactured distributor ($55-$75) is the solution, since they may not have access to a press.

IV.) Troubleshooting the ignition system – no spark or weak spark. All the tests are done with the ignition switch in the Run position unless specified otherwise. A safety pin may be used to probe the wiring connectors from the back side.
1.) Check for 12 volts at the yellow wires on the ignition switch. No 12 volts and the fuse link near the starter solenoid has open circuited.
2.) Check for 12 volts on the red/green and brown/pink wires coming out of the ignition switch. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.
3.) Check for 12 volts at the ignition coil. No 12 volts and the blue 20 gauge fuse link has open circuited.
4.) Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the TFI module. No 12 volts and you have wiring problems.
5.) Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid (looks like it is stuck on a screw). This is a safety measure to keep the engine from turning while you are making measurements. Have a helper turn the ignition switch to Start and look for 12 volts on the red/lt blue wire on the TFI module. No 12 volts and you will have starting problems, but push starting the car will work OK. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch. Be sure to reconnect the red/blue wire to the starter when you finish.
6.) Check the red/blue wire to make sure that it has less than 8 volts when the ignition switch is in the Run position.
7.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the PIP pulse. The computer uses the PIP signal to trigger the fuel injectors. The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the PIP is working. No flash from the noid light and the PIP is suspect. To confirm the PIP is being the source of the non flashing noid light, look for 12 volts on the red injector wiring. Good 12 volts and no flashing noid light means the PIP has failed.
8.) Remove the SPOUT plug from the harness and try to start the engine. If it starts, replace the PIP. This is a common no start condition when the engine is hot.
9.) The TFI module is a go/no go item when you have a no spark/weak spark condition on a cold engine. It either works or it doesn’t.
The TFI failure mode on a running car is usually a high speed miss on a warm engine. Many auto parts stores will test your TFI module for free. Bring along a hair dryer to get it hot while testing it and run several test cycles, since it often gets weak when it heats up.
Spraying the TFI module with “canned air” used to dust computer keyboards while the engine is hot and misfiring is one way to check the TFI. Turn the can upside down and spray away; this will cool the TFI of quickly. If it stops missing, the TFI is the likely suspect.

The coil is somewhat more difficult to pinpoint as a problem. A good coil will make a nice fat blue spark 3/8”-1/2” long. The problem is that one person’s perception of a fat blue spark looks like may not be accurate enough to spot a weak coil. The coil is cheap enough ($13-$16) that having a known good working spare might be a good idea.

diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2Birds
fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif


TFI_5.0_comparison.gif


tfi-module-troubleshooting-gif.585284


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif


PIP Sensor functionality, testing and replacement:
The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. A failing PIP sensor will often set code 14 in the computer. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

Some simple checks to do before replacing the PIP sensor or distributor:
You will need a Multimeter or DVM with good batteries: test or replace them before you get started.. You may also need some extra 16-18 gauge wire to extend the length of the meter’s test leads.
Visual check first: look for chaffed or damaged wiring and loose connector pins in the TFI harness connector.
Check the IDM wiring – dark green/yellow wire from the TFI module to pin 4 on the computer. There is a 22K Ohm resistor in the wiring between the TFI and the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 22,000 ohms +/- 10%.
Check the PIP wiring - dark blue from the TFI module to pin 56 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the SPOUT wiring – yellow/lt green from the TFI module to pin 36 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the black/orange wire from the TFI module to pin 16 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the red/green wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch on and the engine not running.
Check the red/blue wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch in Start and the engine not running. Watch out for the fan blades when you do this test, since the engine will be cranking.
If you do not find any chaffed or broken wires, high resistance connections or loose pins in the wiring harness, replace the PIP sensor or the distributor.

The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it. Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a reman unit for about $75 exchange

PIP problems & diagnostic info
Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer to pulse the fuel injectors, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, and the SPOUT in, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.

Code 18 - SPOUT out or wiring fault - look for short to ground in SPOUT wiring going
back to the computer. Possible bad TFI or defective 22 K resistor in the IDM wiring

Use a timing light to check the timing: remove the SPOUT and observe that the timing retards at least 4 degrees. Put the SPOUT back in place and observe that the spark advances at least 4 degrees.
This code can disable spark advance and reduce power and fuel economy.

Remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector.
There is a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place.
Disconnect the TFI module connector from the TFI and the measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire and ground.
You should see greater than 100 K (100000) ohms.
Check the resistance from Pin 4 on the computer connector (dark green/yellow) and the dark green/yellow wire on the TFI connector. You should see 20-24 K Ohms (20,000-24,0000 ohms).


Resistor location: A big thanks to liljoe07 for this information:

Check over by the brake booster. Its not in the harness on the TFI, its on the main part of the harness over by the plugs that connect to the dash harness. About 6" or so from that, going back toward the EEC.

If I remember right, the resistor is covered in a shrink tubing that is sealed to the wires. So, you wont be able see any markings. The shrink tubing is labeled though. It's a 22kohm 1/2 watt resistor.

Here is the location.

20150328_105525-jpg.532446


Next measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire on the TFI module connector and Pin 36 on the computer connector. With the SPOUT plug in place, you should see less than 2 ohms.

The following is a view from the computer side of the computer connector.
eec-iv-computer-connector-for-5-0-mustang-gif.88243


This diagram is the wire side of the computer connector.
a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316


Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif
 
I have checked the items above already except for the resistor inline. I will check these all over 1 by 1 when I get home tonight and post the results.
As far as the gray TFIs and the Black one being the only one that won't run with the spout in, is there a way to determine which TFI belongs on my car? I don't want to test and troubleshoot with the wrong TFI.
 
I have checked the items above already except for the resistor inline. I will check these all over 1 by 1 when I get home tonight and post the results.
As far as the gray TFIs and the Black one being the only one that won't run with the spout in, is there a way to determine which TFI belongs on my car? I don't want to test and troubleshoot with the wrong TFI.

Use the 86-93 Distributor mount TFI.
 
Start with the gray Motorcraft module, then the gray NAPA module. Forget about the black Jegs module for right now.
All check seem good that resistor even though my colors at the TFI don't match going from pin 4 to the 2nd from the bottom on the TFI I get 0.2 ohms. I cut the harness opened at the booster and ohmed the resistor directly and get the same reading. Could this be it. Can I just head to radio shack and buy and solder in a new 20-22k ?
 
All check seem good that resistor even though my colors at the TFI don't match going from pin 4 to the 2nd from the bottom on the TFI I get 0.2 ohms. I cut the harness opened at the booster and ohmed the resistor directly and get the same reading. Could this be it. Can I just head to radio shack and buy and solder in a new 20-22k ?
Well that was short lived I thought I had it but what I was calling a resistor above the booster was just a 3 into 1 splice I don't see any wire with 22k labeled on it and again my TFI doesn't have the stated dark green and yellow wire.
 
Here's a wiring harness with the 91-93 wire colors; it may be what you need.

The following are diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif



See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring; http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.



TFI module wiring for 94-95 Mustang GT
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang-94-95-IgnitionControlModule.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-90 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

O2 sensor wiring harness
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangO2Harness.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pin out
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

Mustang 5.0 Lights and Radio schematic, by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxLights-Radio_diag.gif

87-92 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang87-92 PowerWindowWiring.gif

93 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang93PowerWindows.gif

T5 Cutaway showing T5 internal parts
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/5_Speed_Cutaway_Illustrated.jpg

Visual comparison of the Ford Fuel Injectors, picture by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Ford_Injector_Guide.jpg

Convertible top motor wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang88VertTopMotorCkt.gif

Engine mounted fuel injector harness
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangEngineHarness.gif

Location of the TPS, IAB, and the 10-pin connectors on a 5.0, picture by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TPS_IAB_Pic.jpg

Starter circuit
http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21328&d=1080916057

Alternator diagram for 94-95 Mustangs.
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang-94-95-Alt.gif
 
Here's what I have in that area pics attached I cut opened the heat shrink and sure enough no resistor in there. It's setup where 2 wires came from the left 2 from the right. 1 wire from the left went into this connection the 2nd one on the left looped around in the harness and came in with the other 2 from the left. And again this 0.2 ohm I get is from pin 4 which is tan and yellow at the ecu to pin 2 labeled cool negative at the TFI
 

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Yes those colors match. From Pin 4 to the TFI I get 0.2 ohm and it looks like further into the harness on the tan and yellow to the coil comeone did some soldering. Can you confirm this year should have the resistor?
 
Little more digging. Those 4 tan and yellows are as follows 1 to pin 2 at the at the TFI 1 to the coil 1 to pin 4 and the 4th appears to go through the firewall somewhere. Still trying to find that one.
 
All the cars from 87-93 used the 22K ohm resistor in the wiring between the TFI and the tach and computer as shown in the diagram.
 
Do you feel this is the issue with computer not advancing
The cost of the part is less than $1, and if Ford could have gotten away without it, they would have eliminated it. It serves to provide some isolation and voltage reduction to protect the computer and tach. If that doesn't fix it, you may have computer problems.

Resistors are not polarized and they don't care which end connects to what.