No Power, pops out back, runs hot, and Pi$$ me off

[TOM B]

Water flow - to good- pushed the lower spring into the upper part of the radiator and pulled the lower spring almost into the water pump.

Radiator is a fluidyne 3 core alu. radiator with mechanical shrouded fan pulling and a spal 14in pusher.

I still say your running to hot , you have a mechanical fan and the added a pusher fan to try to cool it.
First, you have coolant flow that is way to fast and you said its pushing the springs. this is caused by.
Not running or running the wrong thermostat.
Wrong size pulleys.
A high flow water pump like a Edelbrock.

Other things that cause high water temps are...
Mechanical fan not set in shroud correct distance.
Not enough air to radiator, your added pusher fan stops a lot of air flow.
To small a radiator for the horse power. but sounds right.
Head gaskets or intake gaskets wrong or on wrong or blown head gasket.
Timing at cam or distributor.
To hot a spark plug.

If the fuel is to hot or getting a possible vapor lock and you loose power then you should look a the overheating problem first, all the problems you stated are caused by the engine overheating.
One dont flush the toilet before you poop!

 

[mustangman1974]

I still say your running to hot , you have a mechanical fan and the added a pusher fan to try to cool it.
First, you have coolant flow that is way to fast and you said its pushing the springs. this is caused by.
Not running or running the wrong thermostat.

I am currently running a 160 stock thermostat.

Wrong size pulleys. - all stock pulleys. I am running A/C so all pulleys were returned to stock.

A high flow water pump like a Edelbrock. - nope but new bosch water pump. It has a stamped steel impeller rather then the higher flow cast impellers.

Other things that cause high water temps are...
Mechanical fan not set in shroud correct distance.

Might be true its sitting abut 1/4 inch farther in then it should be.


Not enough air to radiator, your added pusher fan stops a lot of air flow.

I added the pusher when the new radiator did not solve the problem. On my old setup I had the same pusher and it only came on in 100+ heat in traffic. Then again I didn;t have a/c then either.

To small a radiator for the horse power. but sounds right.

Nope fluidyne 3 core radiator. According to their specs shoudl handle 450+ or 350+ with a/c. Ford rated the motor at 285 bhps. not even close.

Head gaskets or intake gaskets wrong or on wrong or blown head gasket.

Installed at factory so I have no idea.

Timing at cam or distributor.

Cam timing was straight up I did not advance the timing at all. Distributer set at 10 degrees. 34 total.

Could a double roller timing chain take a crap with only 34k miles?


To hot a spark plug.

Currently running autolite 26s

If the fuel is to hot or getting a possible vapor lock and you loose power then you should look a the overheating problem first, all the problems you stated are caused by the engine overheating.

Ever since I bought this car its run hot. I originally had a 260 and that thing ran just as hot.

This new setup used to run 220 in traffic with a/c in 110 heat. That is normal for this setup, but something broke and I have no idea what.

 

[woodsnake]

Do you have a laser temp thingy? If you can find out where it is running hot, it will help identify the problem....

 

[mustangman1974]

ok - update

Did some more tuning and carburetor fuel line work. I tied all fuel lines away from power steering hoses and a/c hoses. Now in my clear fuel filter I see no fuel.

I went down rod sizes from 74x52 to 70x47. Seemed to run a bit cooler on the highway, but still almost pegged the water gauge, 230+ factory was still within the "normal" range.

I am running a craftsman vacuum gauge strapped to my dash to see what the readings are when it bogs. When is starts the vacuum lowers significantly.

I tried pumping the gas to see if if it helped. It sputters seems like it almost helps then backfire out the back.

WTF am I missing? I am i chasing the wrong best by messing with the fuel system?

Put new plugs in and drove it around town with a heavy foot. Plugs have a white powder on them, and have little white specks. When I warmed her up fuel filter was full. When I pulled in sputtering fuel filter was empty except for a fuel bubble inside the element.

 

[CraigMBA]

It appears you have a fuel delevery problem that is causing a lean missfire.

I'd suggust getting a fuel pressure gauge, and checking it right behind the filter. You need to check it cold and hot, when it runs good, and when it doesn't.

 

[mustangman1974]

It appears you have a fuel delevery problem that is causing a lean missfire.

I'd suggust getting a fuel pressure gauge, and checking it right behind the filter. You need to check it cold and hot, when it runs good, and when it doesn't.

At idle its 6.5 and even hot idle its 6.5. The issue only arises when I drive the damn thing. You have an idea how to temporary route a preasure guage inside the car? I have been working on this damn thing so long I can't even think. Not to mention it has to be hot out for it to happen so its kind of try go to work come home. damn not fixed, try something drive around, nothing, go to work come home, damn not fixed.

 

[STSFCTN67]

At idle its 6.5 and even hot idle its 6.5. The issue only arises when I drive the damn thing. You have an idea how to temporary route a preasure guage inside the car? I have been working on this damn thing so long I can't even think. Not to mention it has to be hot out for it to happen so its kind of try go to work come home. damn not fixed, try something drive around, nothing, go to work come home, damn not fixed.

Sounds like it is starving under a load, take the fuel line off the carb and check the flow before the filter and after the filter by having someone turn the engine over with the fuel line pointed into a gas can. Even a clean filter installed backwards will cause this problem.

 

[mustangman1974]

looks like it is leaning out when it get to 190. I ran it to work today in the heat with a/f gauge and vacuum gauge inside the car.

New evidence.

Leans way out when you coast or let of gas.
When at full throttle vacuum bounces from 0-2 just before it starts its bog dance.

Could a big vacuum leak be causing all my problems?

I bought a new PVC valve, intake gaskets, and carb gaskets just for giggles.

 

[mustangman1974]

Ok here is some new information.

New plugs autlolite 26s
New wires - Bosch

Plug 2 was a little darker grey then the rest.
Plug 5 had what looked like black sand all around it.
all plugs were lite grey. Electrode wasn't discolored more then .04 above connection to base. <- is this to mush timing?


Bought a laser thermal heat gun.

Took temperatures at the follow locations and now I am completely confused.

Top of radiator 180
Top of manifold near sensor 210
thermostat housing 200
valve covers 190
rear of intake right where vacuum port for trans is. 220.
Fuel line at filter 190 <- me thinks this is a problem
Fuel pump 190 <- so its hot I see.

ok I used to run a carter strip without a problem. Could the higher pressure pump made this problem what ever it is not an issue?

 

[blown65]

on my wideband and my motor, best power is right around 12.8-13.0. Idle is set right about 13.5-13.8 and cruise bounces around quite a bit, but varies from 14.0-15.0. When the motor is first started cold, idle is around 15.0. Pretty sensitive till it gets some heat and richens up.

11.5 on NA under load is way to rich IMO. 13.0 under full load is a good target.

 

[mustangman1974]

13 is my goal, but for some reason this damn thing is either starving for fuel, boiling the fuel, or its the antichrist.

 

[69gmachine]

I know this may be way out in left field, but have you checked to make sure you don't have a couple of spark plug wires crossed?

I would be very concerned about one spark plug being oily. You may have a serious problem in that cylinder already like a broken ring or burned piston.

 

[mustangman1974]

no crossed wires first thing I checked. Yeah put compression and leakdown were great in all cylinders. I think I might have a bad intake gasket pulling oil from intake.

The one step hotter in plugs kind of made problem arrise later in temp about 200, but it sure gets there way faster. Warm-up in morning usually took 20 minutes now its about 10.

Took more temp readings, but this time with a probe rather then the harbor freight infra red gun.

Fuel line 190
back of manifold 180
thermostadt housing 210
top of radiator 170
bottom of radiator 180
fuel pump 190

I also took some readings from the exhaust manifolds
1 - 410
2 - 330 - 370 (bounced) - light black plug
3 - 337
4 - 365
5 - 300 - 360 (bounced) - black crystal plug
6 - 350
7 - 357
8 - 385

I am like a dog chasing his tail.

I checked the rubber fuel line at the tank. No cracks. Its about 3 years old. I checked the hardine for nicks and found one one questionable situation. Muffler bracket is touching hard line near gas tank. Considering this has been there for 12 years I don;t think heat transfer here is an issue. I checked the hard line and its not nicked.

I checked the floats and hanging both are just under 1in. and closed at 7/16. I did notice the needles are a bit stickey and don't drop unless I use a little screw driver to gentle coax them down.

There was rust in the bottom of the float bowls. This is a fresh rebuild, we actually about 8 months old. I change the filter before the pump and before the carburetor every oil change. or 2k.

So here is my only guess.

Lets assume its vapor-lock, I replaced the stainless braided fuel line with rubber and it only touched the a/c bracket and pvc hose. Would replacing it with steel or aluminum hard line alleviate vapor lock? I always thought rubber hose kept this from happening.

 

[mustangman1974]

You know the more I rack my brain and throw money at this problem the more I think why I installed the fuel regulator and new fuel pump. I thought I was having a flooding problem, after installation of the regulator and new fuel pump, I still had to rebuild the carburetor. That seemed to solve the flooding problem.

I am wondering, if I actually was dealing with the same leaning condition.

2 questions.

How do I check the hardline for leaks? I was thinking of using an air compressor and blowing air through the hard line all the way back to the tank. I was kind of also hoping it would blow an crap off the sock.

What if I install a bigger float needle and seat will this decrease the possible vapor lock?

 

[mustangman1974]

ok pressurized hard line with 10psi held pressure no leaks. Replaced all rubber lines attached to hard line.

Still causing the same issue. Going to buy a cheapie 2in fuel pressure guage. Hopefully this will shead some light. guage on regulator is fluid filled and usless when engine is hot.

 

[jcode68]

I wish I had some words of wisdom for you, but anything I would have thought of you have already covered. One thing is for sure, when you do actually fix this issue, this thread will serve others for years to come. The stuff legends are made from

 

[TOM B]

Ok, its time you stop being so dam hardheaded, your engine runs rough because its overheating. period.
You got it.

 

[mustangman1974]

Ok, its time you stop being so dam hardheaded, your engine runs rough because its overheating. period.
You got it.

No duh, but the problem is this bogging and sputtering makes the temp continue to rise. And considering the cooling system I have it don't even puke into the overflow. Some how its boiling the gas is all I can figure out. But as of today the only part I haven;t replaced is the gas tank sender unit.

All fuel system components, carb lines fuel pump have been rebuilt or replaced. The ignition primary and secondary wires have all been replaced.

The cooling system is at 50/50 dexcool, and no its the prestone kind not the dexmud. Distilled water not tap. to dilute coolant

2 bottles of Redline water wetter.

I still got the 160 thermostadt I am going to pull the manifold off this coming Friday and reseal it. Thats when I am going to replace it with a 180.

Other than that the difference between the 160 and 180 I do not think is the reason for the sputtering.

SEEEEEEE I know its getting hot but why is beyond me my setup always rand 200-210MAX before with no problems until about may of this year. Its murphy's law. Thats about the time I sunk 900 bucks into new interior seats, carpet, door panels, weather striping, paint, and dash pad to start redoing interior.

 

[TOM B]

Then why do you continue to spend money on parts that are not bad.
All the parts you bought are things that go wrong AFTER the engine gets hot.
Dont over look your problem. go back to the basics

 

[oz]

Regarding fuel pressure, get a gauge that you can locate where you can see it while you drive. You might find that the pump is unable to pull enough fuel at high rpms due to line restriction. The fact that a newly rebuilt carb already has rust in the fuel bowl tells me you need a new fuel tank, filter and perhaps a pump.

I personally don't think the car is 'overheating'. Water/Glycol is effective as a coolant until it boils. As long as you have not boiled the coolant, your car is running within a reasonable temperature range. While optimal performance will be attained at a lower coolant temperature, damage won't usually occur until coolant boils.

I personally think you have a fuel delivery problem (as I said before in my 8-1-08 post). Try rejetting your secondaries to something huge, go out and thrash it and watch the A/F gauge... if it is still lean, the fuel system is to blame - without a doubt. As mentioned before, lean burn causes very high combustion temperatures. Your 'overheating' issue may very well be a symptom of your fuel delivery problem.

Good Luck and report back what you find.