No Spark With Spout Out And Fuel Pump Running Constantly

Christian Cornwell

Active Member
Aug 31, 2016
86
20
28
Upstate NY
Okay so before I get into the problems that i am having, a little background... So I originally bought my car a 1994 5 speed V6 and boosted that with a Vortech Supercharger. When I kept going through head gaskets i decided that it was time for a change (also had some money available at the time). I searched craigslist and found a guy with the motor out of a 89 Mustang GT with a cam, some forged pistons and some other stuff done to it. I talked to the guy and he said he also had a harness and ecu to go with the motor that he'd throw in. So i went and got the motor, tore it apart made sure everything looked good, threw a set of ARP head studs in it and slapped the motor together and started looking at the wiring. Turns out the guy didn't give me the EFI harness for the car which was no big deal i figured id just order one on ebay or something but ended up finding a harness out of a 95 GT locally that came with the computer, harness from the computer onwards including a CCRM. Since i had the motor of a 89 and the harness of a 95 i had to make a harness to go from the TFI that is located on the 89 distributor to the connector where the TFI plugs into on the 95 harness near the passenger side inner fender. So i finally got the motor in the car and to start off I didn't have any spark. Fixed that with a new TFI module but now i run into the problem of only getting spark with the spout connector out. I ran through the checklist that i found on a few forums and everything seemed to test good so i assumed that it must be a grounding issue somewhere. I pulled the fuze box up and soldered the wires for the computer ground to eliminate any grounding issues there. I also put new connectors where the battery ground goes to the radiator surround to eliminate any issues there. Still i have the same problem. I have great spark on all cylinders with the spout out but nothing with it in. Now the other thing that seems to be getting me is that when i turn the key on the fuel pump runs constantly. It doesn't prime for 2-5seconds like it is supposed to and the car will not start. It seems like the car is not wanting to fire the injectors because of the fact that the spout is not in. Now i went through and replaced the CCRM thinking that that would be the primary cause of that but it made zero difference. After this i went out and picked up a ford scan tool that plugs into the EEC-IV plug. After running the codes i came back with a few that i new i would have sine i was only trying to test start the motor at this point. I ended up with codes 118 for the coolant temperature sensor not being hooked up, 122 for the TPS being broken (have one ordered), 637 for Transmission Oil Temperature Circuit above Maximum Voltage (this one seems strange to me), 654 for the transmission not being in park during KOEO test. This threw up a major red flag for me. Now im sure that the guy i bought the 95 harness and ecu from told me that it came out of a five speed. My car is also a five speed so im not sure whats happening here. This is again another area i need help with. Im sure i heard before that you could use a auto computer with a manual car if you bypassed some sensor so does any one know how to do that?. I believe that this could be causing the problem with the car not wanting to fire the injectors. I also get a code for Fuel Pump Relay Primary Circuit Fault which i attribute to the fuel pump running constantly. From what i have read everywhere it seems like the fuel pump is solely run by the CCRM which is why i changed this out before i did any more troubleshooting. Is there a relay somewhere that the car may not have had when it was a v6 that it now needs for the v8? If not where should the fuel pump relay be? Ive messed with this for over a week now trying to figure out these problems and i figured it was time to finally ask to see if any thing stood out to anyone. All of the problems that i am having combined seem to me like a bad computer. Does this sound right? I can have my local auto parts guy get one in but its going to be a few days before he can get it here. Im also kind of getting sick of throwing money at a problem attempting to fix it but it seems like the logical next step.

Any help is appreciated. Would love to have this thing out driving soon to see how she feels with the boosted V8 in it.

Thanks for the help,
Christian
 
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jrichker

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The TFI for pre 94 Mustangs is different from 94-95 Mustangs; it is wired differently. You will need a 94-95 distributor and TFI.

diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2Birds
TFI_5.0_comparison.gif




See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif
 

Christian Cornwell

Active Member
Aug 31, 2016
86
20
28
Upstate NY
Thanks Davedacarpainter! Thanks for pointing that out jrichker! I thought that something with that combination of parts could cause problems. Ive got a new 95 distributor coming in later today so hopefully that will solve some of my problems. It doesnt seem like that could cause my constant fuel pump running problem but it might if it is somehow completing the ground for the fuel pump circuit. We will see later I guess.
 
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Christian Cornwell

Active Member
Aug 31, 2016
86
20
28
Upstate NY
Well wound'nt you know jrichker called it right off the bat! I got the new distributor and installed it. Plugged everything in and checked for spark and wouldn't you know perfect spark with the spout in! Still haven't test fired the car. That'll be coming in the next probably 20min. I'm still having the problem of the fuel pump running constantly. Anyone have any ideas for that? Like i said before i already replaced the ccrm and that didn't help. I can hear a clicking from the passengers side near the firewall but cannot determine if the clicking is from inside or out. When outside the car listening it appears to be inside and when you go inside it appears to be coming from outside. I had read somewhere that there is a fuel pump relay behind the glove box but don't see it anywhere. Am i not looking hard enough? Is there and easy way to accesses it like removing the glove box?


Thanks again jrichker! It probably would have been another week of messing around before i finally decided to get the 95 distributor to try and you saved me all that fun haha.
 
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Christian Cornwell

Active Member
Aug 31, 2016
86
20
28
Upstate NY
So I've run into a new problem. No matter what i did while trying to test fire the car last night i couldn't get the car to fire at all. After a ton of messing around i decided to try out the non HO firing order. After i swapped the plugs around i attempted to stark the car and it fired right off the bat. The car ran for a second and stalled out, i assume due to my lack of sensors. After turning the screw that adjusts the idle i got the car to run for probably ten seconds before i shut it off with the key. The car ran pretty crappy for the few seconds i had it running again i assumed due to the lack of sensors. I just so happened to touch one of the headers and some are hot and some are not. It doesn't seem like the headers would be hot after only a few seconds of running and i mean hot! I assume that detonation is happening but don't understand why. I installed the new distributor correctly as per everything that i have read making sure that i am at TDC on the compression stroke. I tried again using the HO firing order but not even a hint of the motor trying to start. I pulled one of the plugs where the headers weren't super hot and it didn't appear to be coated in fuel. I'm pretty lost at this point and some more help would be really appreciated.
 

jrichker

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What is the code on the computer?
What is the computer part number?
Are you getting a noid pulse on cylinders 1, 2, 6, 8,
What year computer wiring harness are you running at this time?
What year engine fuel injector harness are you running?
 
Last edited:

Christian Cornwell

Active Member
Aug 31, 2016
86
20
28
Upstate NY
Just got the problem solved! Found out from an old mechanical mastermind that if you only get ignition on cylinders 3,4,5,7 using the old 302 firing order it means that your distributor is 180 off due to the fact that the other cylinders should have the correct spark regardless. Never realized this and didn't see on any forums that if it was 180 out it would run on the old firing order. Could be helpful for people trying to diagnose problems where they have a no start problem but like me don't believe that the distributor is 180 off. Just flip the plug wires around and see if it'll fire.

Not sure how i managed to install it 180. Must have checked to make sure at least 50 times but oh well. Switched everything around and she popped right off. Just gotta finish my long list of things now and the car should be ready to hit the road again.
 
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Christian Cornwell

Active Member
Aug 31, 2016
86
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28
Upstate NY
So I'm still having the problem with my fuel pump running constantly. I'm going to go through and pull out the glove box tomorrow after work to see if i can find what is clicking back there. Hopefully there is just a relay back there.

So the setup now is 89 5.0 with a fuel injection harness, computer harness and computer out of a 95, 95 distributor and 95 TFI
 
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jrichker

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Fuel Pump Troubleshooting for 94-95 GT 5.0 Mustangs

Revised 29-Sep-2014 to add diagrams for CCRM and under hood fuse boxes.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 1-5 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower LH corner to ground.
Underhoodpictures007-01.jpg


Underhoodpictures010.jpg


attachment.php



If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. A tire pressure gauge can also be used if you have one - look for 37-40 PSI. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. Most auto parts stores will reno or loan a fuel pressure test gauge it you have a credit card

No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – press reset button on the inertia switch. The hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay –Note that all the relays on 94-95 models are in the CCRM box under the hood
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse in under hood fuse box.
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while pump is running.

The electrical circuit for the fuel pump has two paths, a control path and a power path.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


The control path consists of the computer, and the fuel pump relay coil. It turns the fuel pump relay on or off under computer control. The switched power (red wire) from the ECC relay goes to the relay coil and then from the relay coil to the computer (light blue\orange wire). The computer provides the ground path to complete the circuit. This ground causes the relay coil to energize and close the contacts for the power path. Keep in mind that you can have voltage to all the right places, but the computer must provide a ground. If there is no ground, the relay will not close the power contacts.

The power path picks up from the under hood fuse box located between the windshield washer filler and the driver's side shock absorber strut tower.. The feed wire from the fuse (pink/black wire) goes to the fuel pump relay contacts. The fuel pump relay is located in the CCRM box on the passenger side of the car up near the radiator. When the contacts close because the relay energizes, the power flows through the pink/black wire to the contacts and through the dark green\yellow wire to the inertia switch. The other side of the inertia switch with the brown\pink wire joins the pink/black wire that connects to the fuel pump. The fuel pump has a black wire that supplies the ground to complete the circuit.


Remember that the computer does not source any power to actuators, relays or injectors, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

See http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for more wiring help for 94-95 cars

Now that you have the theory of how it works, it’s time to go digging.


Power circuits:
Under hood Fuses
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Click on diagram to enlarge it

Mustang-94-95-Underhood-Fuses.gif



CCRM relays - all CCRM relays are located under the hood

CCRM location
Diagram courtesy of http://ww2.justanswer.com

Click on diagram to enlarge it

2010-04-05_231739_A1.jpg




CCRM Diagram
Diagram courtesy of http://diagrams.hissind.com/

CCRM-Diagram.jpg



Power feed: Look for 12 volts at the pink/black wire (power source for fuel pump relay). No voltage or low voltage, bad fuse link, bad wiring, or connections.

Relay: Turn on the key and jumper the ECC test connector as previously described. Look for 12 volts at the dark green\yellow wire (relay controlled power for the fuel pump). No voltage there means that the relay has failed, or there is a broken wire in the relay control circuit.

Inertia switch: Check the brown/pink wire, it should have 12 volts. No 12 volts there, either the inertia switch is open or has no power to it. Check both sides of the inertia switch: there should be power on the dark green\yellow (inertia switch input) and brown/pink wire (inertia switch output). Power on the dark green\yellow wire and not on the brown/pink wire means the inertia switch is open. Press on the red plunger to reset it to the closed position. Sometimes the inertia switch will be intermittent or will not pass full power. Be sure that there is 12 volts on both sides of the switch with the pump running and that the voltage drop measured across the switch is less than .75 volts.

Pump wiring: Anytime the ignition switch is in the Run position and the test point is jumpered to ground, there should be at least 12 volts present on the black/pink wire. With power off, check the pump ground: you should see less than 1 ohm between the black wire and chassis ground.

Make sure that the power is off the circuit before making any resistance checks.
If the circuit is powered up, your resistance measurements will be inaccurate.


Fuel tank wiring connector
attachment.php



Control circuits:

Relay: The red wire for the fuel pump relay coil gets its power feed from the ECC relay. No 12 volts here, and the ECC relay has failed or there is bad wiring or bad connections coming from it. The ECC relay is located on top of the computer, which is under the passenger’s side kick panel. It is not easy to get to, you must have small hands or pull the passenger side dash speaker out to access it.

Relay: The light blue/orange wire provides a ground path for the relay power. With the test connector jumpered according to the previous instructions, there should be less than .75 volts. Use a test lamp with one side connected to battery power and the other side to the light blue/orange wire on the fuel pump relay. The test light should glow brightly. No glow and you have a broken wire or bad connection between the test connector and the relay. To test the wiring from the computer, remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector. It has a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place. Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector. With the test lamp connected to power, jumper pin 22 to ground and the test lamp should glow. No glow and the wiring between the computer and the fuel pump relay is bad.

Computer: If you got this far and everything else checked out good, the computer is suspect .Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector located under the hood . Remove the plastic cover over the computer wiring, but leave the computer wiring connector plugged into the computer. With the ignition switch in the run position, connect a test lamp to the battery and back probe pin 22, the light blue/orange wire with it. The lamp should glow brightly. No glow and the computer has died a sad death. :( If you used a voltmeter instead of a test lamp, you should see less than 1 volt.




See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.