On the subject of DIY paint jobs

[nosaj122081]

I'm in the planning stages of my own DIY paint job currently, and the other thread has reminded me of a question I've been wondering about.

I've decided to go with a single stage black/argent combo (as opposed to the grabber yellow/black combo it is now), and was curious about the different lines of PPG paints. Their OMNI line is $50 cheaper than the DELSTAR line, I was wondering if there was anything particular wrong with the OMNI that would make it a bad choice. This will be my first time painting an entire car, and it will be stripped to clean metal; the only real issues with the body are blocksanding the fiberglass fenders (they look somewhat wavy now) and fixing a decklid dent. Would OMNI be a good choice for a first timer, and last a reasonably long time (car's garaged). If its of any importance, I have yet to choose my gun, I'm still going between a conventional vs. a HVLP.

 

[Ronstang]

You really need to speak with your local PPG supplier about the paint as they can answer all of your questions. I have always had good luck getting advice at the supply stores as they are usually eager to help the novice if you don't go in when they are too busy.

Spray guns are a whole other issue. I won't use conventional guns anymore except the small touch up guns I have for shooting small amounts of paint because their transfer efficiency is aweful and you end up making a huge mess and wating a lot of paint. HVLP is the way to go, but to make this even more difficult of a decision I only use turbine setups now. They can be pricey but Tractor Supply has one for about $400 or less and you can get a professional one wholesale for about $800-1200 depending on features. I prefer these setups because they are selfcontained. They preheat the air so humidity is never an issue, and no oil to worry about either. They are protable and you can carry the unit to friend's houses for projects.....basically you can paint anywhere there is 120V house current. The kind of paint jobs I do for myslef would cost me $7-10K if I had to pay for them so I consider the cost of tools to be inconsequencial, especially since I will always have another car project.

 

[TT670]

The omni clear is very good. However I dont recommend the omni color, it has less solids and takes more to get good coverage, so really it isnt any cheaper in the long run. PPG Delstar is a very good quality paint. Also if youre doing single stage Dupont Centari is a very good paint and is forgiving to rookies. Spray a medium/light first coat, let it flash for 20 minutes and spray 2 more wet coats with 15-20 minutes between coats.

 

[oboebrian]

Also remember, black and red and other darker colors are very hard to paint. Mainly due to the fact that you have to have every inch of the body straight. If this is your first time doing paint and body, triple and quadruple check the prep work.

Ronstang is right about the self contained painting units. But they are usually way out of reach for the guy who's only going to do one, maybe two paint jobs. As for the gun I am very satisfied with my Devilbiss Finishline III HVLP gun (with the cup liners) that i bought of www.autobodystore.com .

Also the single stang is a lot harder to correct if you have mistakes such as sags, drips, or color sanding. Plus if you're wanting black, the best looking black cars I've seen were all BC/CC cars because the CC gave the black some depth.

Remember to get a good air compressor and a fresh air system to protect your lungs.

 

[nosaj122081]

Thanks guys, I'll look into the DuPont paint, I don't see any internet suppliers and I'm pretty sure my local guy only stocks PPG, but I don't recall. If I use the PPG looks like I'll skip the Omni and use the Delstar though. TT670, do you use that painting method for all brand paints or just the DuPont? Should I follow a procedure like that for the Delstar?

Yeah, spray black is pretty intimidating, but the car is pretty well straight to begin with, so I should be able to keep the bodywork pretty uniform. The glass fenders are gonna take some work to make them look smooth, but they'd really need that anyhow. Glad you hear you like the HVLP Finishline III, if I go with a HVLP gun that'll be it, plus it has an offer to get a 1.5 tip (what I figure I'd need for the color) in conjunction with the 1.8 tip it has. I thought though that single stage was more forgiving to runs and such however? Isn't the key to single stage having enough on there if you make a mistake you can sand it as long as you don't go too deep? I coulda misread, I've been looking at this stuff too long.

 

[TT670]

Thats a good time frame for Dupont, most single stages follow a similar procedure. The paint dealer should have that kind of info, and often its right on the cans label too. Most all of the single stage that I use is Dupont, the store is close by and Ive had great luck with the product. I agree a Base/clear paint is better choice but you can do a high quality job with single stage. If youre on the fence its something to really think about. Most anybody can spray base coat, it is pretty forgiving. Spraying the clear is similar to spraying a single stage. Its a few more steps but mostly just more time spraying, theres no added work like sanding between the color and clear, and fixing boo boos is easier in clear than single stage. The key to having a good single stage job is patience!! Its easy to get eager and go to early with another coat. That and not keeping your spray gun moving are 2 big causes of runs and sags.

 

[oboebrian]

I agree with TT. I used sherwin williams Sunfire SS on my 72. It's held up really well. But I still think it's easier for a newbie on most cars to go bc/cc. But you can really make a SS pop if you're anal, patient, and color sand it carefully. I know because I did it

 

[one2gamble]

The kind of paint jobs I do for myslef would cost me $7-10K if I had to pay for them so I consider the cost of tools to be inconsequencial, especially since I will always have another car project.

lol, Ill give you 3grand for one of those $7,000 paint jobs

 

[cobra1]

obo who airbrushed the flowers on that hood? that's incredible. looks like crepe myrtles.

 

[oboebrian]

Cobra,

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but for clarification's sake, that's just a reflection of the bouganvilla tree in the paint. It took about 60-100 hours of color sanding and polishing to get the paint to shine like that. That part of the car was painted with a $40 Harbor freight HVLP gun. I defenitely wouldn't recommend the gun other than primer work.

 

[Bullitt]

hate to piggyback here, but had a question for oboebrian:

what grit of paper did you use to get that sort of shine?

i just painted my 90 GT this weekend and ended up with a bit of orange peel in the paint that i'd like to try to remove. it's got 2 coats of base and 1 coat of clear on the car.


i used Nason brand paint (cheaper line of Dupont) for the car and it actually came out great. it's a 1 stage paint with an optional clear. for those on a budget it is a steal.

 

[Ronstang]

Jeff,

I would be careful wetsanding on only 1 coat of clear. The chances of going through to the color coat is high and if it happens it is really hard to fix properly without reshooting the whole panel. Check with the paint manufacturer about the sanding and the number of coats necessary and see if you can add a few more coats of clear now that it has cured. I usually like to use at least 3 coats of clear if I am going to be wetsanding and buffing.

 

[txwoody]

nosaj, You are asking about OMNI. The OMNI is a good paint for the price. I have a lot of shops here that have used it for years. I have seen it last on vehicles for years. I agree with a lot of other people on this post about useing a base/clear. If you are using a metallic color a b/c will be a lot easer to shoot than a singlestage. The OMNI clear MC161 is a easy clear to shoot and the base is not bad for the price. For your first job I would not recommend dropping a lot of money in the paint. This stuff can get expencive very fast.

 

[will_95gt]

i've been thinking about painting just my front bumper myself... i'm not sure how hard it would be to match the rest of the car's paint but its white and i heard thats the easiest color to paint and match

The local paint guy around here would charge me 200 bucks if i took the bumper off myself and brought it up there for him. that devilbiss finishline III gun y'all are talking about is only 100 bucks, i was supprised to see them so cheap.

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DEVFLG643&Category_Code=1D

I've never painted anything like this before so i'm getting kinda excited reading y'alls posts. Even if it cost me the same for the supplies as it would to get it done professionally i'm still up for it. Besides the gun and paint what other supplies would i need. I see it comes with a 1.8 fluid tip, is that the only tip this would require? I rubbed the bumper against something the other day while pulling into a parking lot and it shreded some paint off and its flaking now, so i'm assuming i'll have to chip all the paint off the bumper. Does anyone know of any good online tutorials for this kind of thing.

thanks guys,

sorry for the ignorance

 

[zookeeper]

I painted my '68 a couple years ago using a Finishline III and couldn't have been happier. It's a great gun, but you really need to get a gun-mounted regulator/guage combo to set the pressure accurately. Also, I'd look into bc/cc paint if I were you. Yes, you end up painting the car twice, but it's sooooo forgiving. Another nice thing about getting a Devilbiss gun is parts. I needed a 1.3 tip for clear, and my local paint store had one in stock. I doubt very seriously that anyone has parts for Harbor Freight guns or other bargain price guns. Also, I hard-plumbed by shop ending with a Sharpe filter/regulator/water trap setup and am very glad I did. Clean air is essential to even a decent paint job. I agree that 3 coats of clear is needed to keep from buffing through. I shot my color, then two coats of clear, wet-sanded gently, then shot the stripes, then wet sanded again to remove the ridge in the stripes and shot three coats of final clear. That may sound excessive, but that's what House of Kolor recommended, so that's what I did. That brings up another point, no matter which brand of paint you decide on, follow the instructions like your life depends on it. Just because your buddy claims he read on the internet that it's ok to use different brands of primer, paint and clear, or that adding castor oil to the paint makes it shine more (I kid you not, I actually heard that one) if it's not specifically recommended by the paint manufacturer your using, don't do it! Take your time, be patient and read everything you can get your hands on and you'l be fine.

 

[zookeeper]

i've been thinking about painting just my front bumper myself... i'm not sure how hard it would be to match the rest of the car's paint but its white and i heard thats the easiest color to paint and match

The local paint guy around here would charge me 200 bucks if i took the bumper off myself and brought it up there for him. that devilbiss finishline III gun y'all are talking about is only 100 bucks, i was supprised to see them so cheap.

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DEVFLG643&Category_Code=1D

I've never painted anything like this before so i'm getting kinda excited reading y'alls posts. Even if it cost me the same for the supplies as it would to get it done professionally i'm still up for it. Besides the gun and paint what other supplies would i need. I see it comes with a 1.8 fluid tip, is that the only tip this would require? I rubbed the bumper against something the other day while pulling into a parking lot and it shreded some paint off and its flaking now, so i'm assuming i'll have to chip all the paint off the bumper. Does anyone know of any good online tutorials for this kind of thing.

thanks guys,

sorry for the ignorance

I bought my FL3 with a 1.5 and a 1.8 tip included, and later bought a 1.3 from Len at www.autobodystore.com for something like $25. I used the 1.8 for epoxy primer, the 1.5 for sealer and base coats and the 1.3 for clear and everything worked out just fine. When you get your gun, buy some cheap thinner and get the pattern set to see how all the adjustments work. I typically set my fan knob 3/4 in from full out and my material knob 2 to 2 1/2 turns out from full in to give me a good 6-8 inch wide fan at 7 inches from the car. Seven inches may sound extremely close, but again, that's what House of Kolor says, so that's what I did. No runs, little overspray and no orange peel at all.

 

[Platonic Solid]

OT (I should probably start a new thread, but...)

....HVLP is the way to go, but to make this even more difficult of a decision I only use turbine setups now. They can be pricey but Tractor Supply has one for about $400 or less and you can get a professional one wholesale for about $800-1200 depending on features. I prefer these setups because they are selfcontained. They preheat the air so humidity is never an issue, and no oil to worry about either. They are protable and you can carry the unit to friend's houses for projects.....basically you can paint anywhere there is 120V house current. The kind of paint jobs I do for myslef would cost me $7-10K if I had to pay for them so I consider the cost of tools to be inconsequencial, especially since I will always have another car project.

I had an appointmnet at a local shop for an $8,000 paint job, but cancelled cause I just couldn't justify the price (even though I know how much work is involved). I tried to find professional shops to do it for less, but no one wanted their name associated with it unless it was perfect. So I'm back to the DIY mode. Your turbine suggestion is intriguing. Is it quieter than a compressor? Can you recommend any site links to learn more? Are there any downfalls?

Thanks,
Svend

 

[RMODEL65]

with the single stage you need a spray gun with a tip size of 1.2-1.3 busts up the material better, clear also likes a 1.2-1.3 tip 1.4 is good for base coats. now for the ppg omni line ive used the bc/cc system it was killer i painted my neighbors ranchero it laid out nice and flat with minimal orange peel(reduce the clear slightly) ive never used the single stage personally but if it works as good as the bc/cc it will be nice

 

[mtaqua]

another piggy back if you all don't mind. Is there a HVLP gun that I can use with a compressor rated at SCFM Delivery At 40 psi 8.6 SCFM? It is a Craftsman 25 gal. Air Compressor oil lubed 2 hp compressor http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_SessionID=@@@@1505242590.1161539411@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccladdjehjkfkdcefecemldffidfmm.0&pid=00919541000&cat=Compressors+&subcat=Air+Compressors+&vertical=TOOL&ihtoken=1

 

[Platonic Solid]

... Is there a HVLP gun that I can use with a compressor rated at SCFM Delivery At 40 psi 8.6 SCFM? It is a Craftsman 25 gal. Air Compressor oil lubed 2 hp compressor

As a point of reference, I have a low budget "Provalue" HVLP gun purchased at "Carquest" which is good for primer and OK for paint. The box states "Min. Recommended Compressor Tank Size = 40 Gal." I don't think you can get an HVLP gun to work properly with your tank size, but the best thing to do is ask your local automotive paint supplier.

Keep in mind, better guns require larger compressors due to the larger quantity of paint they lay down. The more paint you can lay per stroke, the faster your completion time per coat = less overspray - less orange peal - less wet sanding. Considering the cost of paint can be $100+ per quart, you'd be well served to invest in more suitable equipment.