On3 or A Trim?

Mstng93SSP · Jan 15, 2021

Through a lot of dealings I have ended up with an on3 turbo setup which is new. It was mocked up on an engine stand but never ran. I also just ended up getting a used Vortech V1 A trim setup (all brackets, head unit etc.) My 93 coupe has a rebuilt 306 with all forged lower end and TFS 11R heads. I run a megasquirt Pimp XS system on the car. This is just a cruiser, no racing. I'm torn on which setup to use. The turbo is nice but would involve more fab type work than the Vortech. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Chris

slow84lx · Jan 15, 2021

This question deserves a poll.

There's more to this question than just blower or turbo

Vortech

down for a day or two while you bolt it in
upgrade the fuel system
Revise tune for the boost.
drive the wheels off it while grinning from ear to ear
buy a new set of rear tires twice a year

Turbo

Put car on jackstands
tear it all apart
fabricate, fabricate, fabricate to make it work
buy more parts
grind, hammer to make them fit
need more parts but can't spend more money on the toy right now
leave project sitting for 5 years
regain interest but struggle to remember where you left off. Spend 3 weeks remembering the details.
try to find those parts you have on the shelf somewhere
finally crank it for the first time in forever
needs more upgrades, buy more parts
take it off jackstands for the first time in your youngest child's life
drive it around the once
change headgaskets
fix some more problems
drive it intermittently
It puts a big smile on your face when it runs, but, it no longer is reliable enough to drive regularly. Not so much fun. You start to resent the space taken up by it, etc.

There might be some exaggeration above but many cars that go down the turbo route never run again due to the big expense, extensive modifications required, and lost interest in a project car that isn't drivable. Put that blower on and keep this stang on the road man!

Mstng93SSP · Jan 15, 2021

As far as upgrading the fuel system, I have everything for that already. The tune wouldn't be an issue either. I hear what you are saying, and I am kinda leaning towards the Vortech partly because I have a brand new exhaust on the car headers to tailpipes with a catted BBK H-pipe so with the Vortech that stays intact.

Kabuki_notch · Jan 15, 2021

my 2 cents I’ve run both, and I can honestly say I‘m enjoying the turbo more, I agree the Vortech is a much easier install practically zero modifications, the on3 kit wasnt too difficult to install I would consider myself an average to below average mechanic and I was able to install the kit on my own.

slow84 makes some valid points, however I don’t agree with the “no longer reliable” that’s simply not true I drove my car daily over the summer in 90degree weather and put more miles on any stang I’ve owned in the last 20years. A properly tuned car makes all the difference.

either Way they would both be a blast to drive.

TOOLOW91 · Jan 15, 2021

That on3 will make 60- 100 more hp then the a trim with probably close to the same boost level and way cooler inlet temps. I had one . Its vortechs oldest blower. They are super reliable but they are little heat machines. IF it were an s trim id say put it on. I made 435 at 7.5 with a systemax, tfs1 cam, tfs 170s , stock bottom end with it . This is coming from someone with a ysi who is die hard vortech

jozsefsz · Jan 15, 2021

It's clear you're not a turbo fan @slow84lx. I don't disagree a turbo's going to be more effort, but in the case of a well-fitted kit the amount of fabrication you have to do isn't quite as extensive as you describe. Let's be a little more fair.

Vortech

down for a day or two while you bolt it in
upgrade the fuel system
tune
gives you ok power from idle to redline, you'll still get beat by a modern Hyundai
sounds like your alternator bearing is going out

Turbo

down for anywhere from a weekend to maybe a week, biggest pain is removing and installing the headers
some fabrication might be required on an ill-fitted kit, and it's a more complicated installation (easier than H-C-I though) but well within the grasp of DIY
upgrade the fuel system
tune
gives you nothing from idle to boost, then gives you neck-snapping torque to redline, you'll keep up with the big boys
makes cool sounds and stuff

I've been running a turbo reliably since 2009, never blown a head gasket or had any other problems. A good tune and reasonable boost settings and you'll have no problems. I've never had a supercharged v8, my old Grand Prix GXP was a blast to drive, they're cool too.

Cheapskate207 · Jan 15, 2021

I have no experience with either. But I’ve done quite a bit of research and looked at many threads. It seems that a turbo is generally a pain in the butt. Most people that install them seem to like them though. Those people also like working on their cars. And they seem to always be doing that.

It seems like Vortech are “set it and forget it”.

These are just my observations. Either option is very cool.

slow84lx · Jan 15, 2021

jozsefsz said:
It's clear you're not a turbo fan @slow84lx. I don't disagree a turbo's going to be more effort, but in the case of a well-fitted kit the amount of fabrication you have to do isn't quite as extensive as you describe. Let's be a little more fair.

Contrary to how it sounds I am actually a fan of both. However, I hate to see a good car sitting idle for extended periods, as many do, missing the parts that make it run.

I voted to sell both & buy beer.

Mstng93SSP · Jan 16, 2021

Either way the car won't sit. I'm a decent mechanic and I work fast. I keep looking at that BRAND NEW On3 and it looks good........

Habu135 · Jan 16, 2021

Great topic. I'm interested in seeing your choice and the results.

ThinBlue502 · Jan 16, 2021

I’ve always been a turbo fan. Probably due to my driving style, though. Boost lag can really be your friend. Especially if you tend to push hard on the skinny pedal, like me. The newer kits aren’t really all that difficult to install. Helped a buddy put an on3 on his SN95. We had it together in a weekend, talking and drinking beer the whole time. You already have MS, and I’m on the “Tune is Everything” bandwagon. Do it.

Edit: If you go Vortech, what are doing with that on3?

TOOLOW91 · Jan 16, 2021

T

jozsefsz said:
It's clear you're not a turbo fan @slow84lx. I don't disagree a turbo's going to be more effort, but in the case of a well-fitted kit the amount of fabrication you have to do isn't quite as extensive as you describe. Let's be a little more fair.

Vortech

down for a day or two while you bolt it in

upgrade the fuel system

tune

gives you ok power from idle to redline, you'll still get beat by a modern Hyundai

sounds like your alternator bearing is going out

Turbo

down for anywhere from a weekend to maybe a week, biggest pain is removing and installing the headers

some fabrication might be required on an ill-fitted kit, and it's a more complicated installation (easier than H-C-I though) but well within the grasp of DIY

upgrade the fuel system

tune

gives you nothing from idle to boost, then gives you neck-snapping torque to redline, you'll keep up with the big boys

makes cool sounds and stuff

I've been running a turbo reliably since 2009, never blown a head gasket or had any other problems. A good tune and reasonable boost settings and you'll have no problems. I've never had a supercharged v8, my old Grand Prix GXP was a blast to drive, they're cool too.

To bad you aren’t closer . While the a trim isn’t anything to snuff at power wise - in 1993-4 when it was new it was definitely the king and there wasn’t anything turbo let’s keep that in mind . My little blower pump gas street car that couldn’t outrun a modern Hyundai would probably leave you looking to turn that boost up in that turbo car of yours after we’re done

a91what · Jan 16, 2021

Turbo.... turbo noises.... more boost is as easy a setting in the MS or you can even setup a switch or button to switch boost levels...
I vote turbo 100000%

Mustang5L5 · Jan 16, 2021

I’m a Vortech fan, but I’d pick the NEW on3 system.

I’d prob opt to coat the hot side stuff vs leaving it wrapped. I’d wonder what HI hunidity (does it exist?) would do to wrapped steel parts.

sell the blower and use it to buy the little odds and ends and coating to finish off the ON3 setup. Enjoy the Pssshh noises

Monkeybutt2000 · Jan 16, 2021

Although I've had a terrible experience with with my turbo car,I've learned ALOT. The On3 kit actually fit pretty well,and didn't have to fab anything except intercooler brackets which were super simple. The biggest PITA for me,is access to the passenger side plugs due to the downpipe routing. You have to remove it to change plugs.

Steel1 · Jan 16, 2021

Pretty solid info here .
The one thing I didn't notice is did you get all the brackets, hardware etc. with the A trim ?
If not that can add to some frustration piecing it together.
I've never had a turbo on my Mustang but I have had 4 different s/c set-ups, one of them being an
A trim.
I have to say that little blower boosted up to 10lbs quick , can't remember what size pulley I had on it maybe 2.95".
It was a great little blower until the impeller met the case then I upgraded to a S trim V1.
My bad just noticed you have all the A trim brackets etc.
Before I decided to build my n/a stroker I was considering installing meth injection, seems like a
fairly simple way to reduce inlet temps on a blower set-up.

DemonGT · Jan 16, 2021

How about just building a bigger cube stroker and just staying N/A?

Mstng93SSP · Jan 16, 2021

Funny you should say that. Along with this a trim I got a 331 stroker, it was disassembled but all of the parts are there. Block is notched, scat crank, probe forged pistons, AFR heads....it was just a deal I couldn't pass up. The kicker is the 306 in my car I just finished building...it literally has 500 miles on it, and it was built for boost.

Cheapskate207 · Jan 16, 2021

Did you originally plan on putting a blower on? Considering the new exhaust and built for boost?

TOOLOW91 · Jan 16, 2021

Mstng93SSP said:
Funny you should say that. Along with this a trim I got a 331 stroker, it was disassembled but all of the parts are there. Block is notched, scat crank, probe forged pistons, AFR heads....it was just a deal I couldn't pass up. The kicker is the 306 in my car I just finished building...it literally has 500 miles on it, and it was built for boost.

A trim would be decent on the 306 . Definitely wayyy to small for a 331 .

On3 or A Trim?

On3, V-1 or Sell both and buy beer

Put on the Vortech

Put on the On3

Sell both and buy beer

You have a nice rear end there Dave.

clean it good before insertion

You have a nice rear end there Dave.

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

The left one hangs a little lower

clean it good before insertion

You have a nice rear end there Dave.

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

SendMeUrDataLog

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

Mustang Master

Mustang Master

You have a nice rear end there Dave.

The left one hangs a little lower

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

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