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Opinions For A Streetable Combo

  • Thread starter Thread starter tamadrummer88
  • Start date Start date Mar 25, 2014
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tamadrummer88

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Aug 19, 2005
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Aloha State
Mar 25, 2014
#1
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #1
Im just throwing this out there to see what everyones idea of a "streetable" combo is.

So lately ive been throwing around engine combos for my fox (hell the paint isnt even done yet!) For me, it has to absolutely be streetable. Personally, to me, a high horsepower motor is useless if i cant use it on the street without it stalling or overheating. So, these are my requirements:

Has to make at least 350RWHP
Retail ALL accessories (A/C, P/S)
Not overheat or stall
Must be able to be driven in rush hour traffic and for long road trips (500+ miles)

Let the ideas commence!
 

David Pepiton

Active Member
Dec 17, 2011
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Laveen, Arizona
Mar 25, 2014
#2
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #2
trickflow top end kit would fit the bill.


thread /
 

smkshw

5 Year Member
Feb 12, 2010
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#3
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #3
the last 2 combos in the guess hp thread have that....mines in there too...
 

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp
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#4
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #4
TFS top end kit alone on a 302 would only get you 350'ish at the flywheel, not the wheels.

My opinion is supercharger. It'll be very streetable and i'd upgrade the cooling system too.
 
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2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
Aug 8, 2003
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Mar 25, 2014
#5
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #5
Not overheating or stalling has nothing to do with streetable.
Stalling has to do with screwing something up and overheating has to do with a poorly planned cooling system.

Streetable is more about how it behaves in traffic and if the power is usable.
Examples of non street friendly would be trailer hitching from not making enough power down low or making all your power above 6000rpm.

With that said, any setup with a properly spec'd cam is streetable.

350rwhp can be done on a 302 with the right parts NA, but it won't be easy or cheap.
Your only other options are stroker, which then the goal should be at least 400rwhp.
Or Vortech on your stock engine, which i never really see as a great idea.
 

rbohm

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Mar 25, 2014
#6
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #6
if i were going to build a motor that fit the OPs parameters, i would start with a 393ci stroker. use a cam that worked best in the 1500-5000 rpm range, or perhaps move that up to 2000-6000. drop on a set of afr205s or a similar head, and top it off with an air gap rpm intake and probably a F.A.S.T. or similar efi system that flowed about 900cfm. add a set of 1 5/8" long tube headers and duals with 2 1/2" or possibly 3" pipes out the back with magnaflow mufflers. that engine should make about 450-500hp at the flywheel, which would translate to about 375 wheel hp. the nice thing though is that this motor would make a ton of mid range torque, and would not be too shabby on the low end either. with the right gearing the top end would take care of itself.
 

bentley429isBAC

10 Year Member
Jul 23, 2009
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Mar 25, 2014
#7
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #7
My idea of street able is not adjusting the valves every 10 miles and not overheating. You don't need much to achieve your goal.
 
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tamadrummer88

Active Member
Aug 19, 2005
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Aloha State
Mar 25, 2014
#8
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #8
I read somewhere that strokers are not good for daily use. True or no?
 

rbohm

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#9
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #9
tamadrummer88 said:
I read somewhere that strokers are not good for daily use. True or no?
Click to expand...

not true. back in the day when the 347 was first gaining popularity, there were issues with poor quality parts. these days however they work just fine, in fact sometimes better depending on what you performance goals are. remember that the larger the engine, the more forgiving it is with camshaft choice, as well as what cylinder head, intake, carb/efi, and header you use. what would be too big on say a 351, would be just about right in a 393 or 408.

one more thing to remember, if you approach your engine build as a system, rather than a collection of parts, you can build a strong running engine that will do just about everything you want it to with in reason.
 

Sharad

ALWAYS choose the V over the P!!! Wait... what?
Jan 5, 2011
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Mar 25, 2014
#10
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #10
My Fox is streetable. 427 stroker on 28lbs of boost. No P/S, No A/C, no problem.
 
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smkshw

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#11
  • Mar 25, 2014
  • #11
no issues either....was worried myself wish i went bigger cam
 

tonydalrymple

Active Member
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Mar 26, 2014
#12
  • Mar 26, 2014
  • #12
331 stroker here that only puts down 348rwhp & 353rwtq. Engine is extremely tractable whether stop sign to stop sign or stop & go traffic. The clutch to hold that power at the drag strip is another issue altogether though.... Left leg can become a wet noodle in a 1\2 hour of stop & go....
 

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
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#13
  • Mar 26, 2014
  • #13
Sharad said:
My Fox is streetable. 427 stroker on 28lbs of boost. No P/S, No A/C, no problem.
Click to expand...
Ditto! 438 with a Vortech Xb105, standard issue 1,400 rwhp grocery getter...
 
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A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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#14
  • Mar 26, 2014
  • #14
If you want to spend the money go Coyote swap! A more reasonable approach would be a stroked 302 with a good h/c/I and a good cooling system. 350 rwhp easily and very reliable.
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
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#15
  • Mar 26, 2014
  • #15
I agree. My streetability problems all come from the clutch that can handle 6000 rpm launches at the track. If I put a sprung hub clutch in it, it wouldn't be a problem.

Kurt
 

Mr. Rustypwnz

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Mar 27, 2014
#16
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #16
150 shot = tada!
 
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jrichker

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Far too many people put a dab of this and a dollop of that, and then wonder why the car doesn't run worth beans. Then they think off the shelf computer chips will fix their mismatched parts problem. It won't You have to have a plan for what kind of performance you want: Hot street. Street/Strip, Pure strip, Autocross or Road course. Each one requires a different strategy and a different set of components.. Mismatch the components and you’ll have a car that falls flat on its face when you demand performance.

Everyone thinks HP! HP! HP! and thinks that peak HP is what they need. Peak HP is great for a drag strip car when it has the proper gears and tires to get the car up into the high RPM range where it develops that high peak HP near the finish line. On a street car, that strategy will have Honda Accords outrunning you, because you will never get the engine RPMs high enough without running over everything in your path.

Here’ the strategy: Always remember that there are some tradeoffs in any engine combination. Most of us don’t have enough money to “have it all” as if it was possible by some masterful combination of parts and tuning.
The following recommendations are for 5 Speed Manual transmission cars without NO2 or pressurized induction, stock short block.

1.) Hot street: Broad flat torque curve, high velocity airflow in the intake and heads for best throttle response. Gears suitable for reasonable gas mileage and long road trips without excessive engine RPMs. Stand on the gas pedal from a rolling start to squeeze into that gap in traffic in front of you, and it jumps quick and hard to get you there. Max RPM’s are 5200-5500 RPM for best power. Lopey cams may sound cool, but run poorly in a low RPM street environment.
Use stock cam, stock, GT40 or mildly ported stock heads, Cobra or Explorer/GT40 intake, advanced timing, stock 19 lb injectors, stock fuel pump. Use some good 1.6 or 1.7 ratio roller rockers for extra punch. Use a King Cobra clutch, with stock iron or steel billet flywheel. MAF cars can use a 65 MM TB from the Explorer intake manifold and a 70MM MAF from a 94-95 Mustang. Drive train: 3:55 gears with soft tread compound tires. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, stock 2 1/4” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. The stock computer will handle all this with no problems and doesn’t need any help in 90% of the cases. No skinny or grossly undersize tires for the front: remember you still have to stop quickly in traffic. Make sure all the rubber bushings in the front and rear suspensions are in first class shape. Leave the emissions equipment intact and working. Removing or disabling it won’t get you any more HP or performance. Do not convert to carb or remove A/C: either one will reduce the resale value. Carb conversions cannot be titled for street use or get tags in some places. They definitely won’t pass smog inspections.

Street/strip: A little more slope to the torque curve with a gently sloping peak. Use slightly larger port volumes on intake) and heads for more peak HP. Uses 3.55 or 3.73 gears to get the RPM’s up into a higher range quicker. Be prepared to sacrifice some low RPM throttle response in exchange for high RPM power. This by necessity will be a Mass Air or Mass Air conversion on 86-88 5.0 Mustangs, since stock speed density will not run well with the changes in engine airflow. Don’t get too crazy on any one engine part since you still have to drive the car on the street, and a mismatch can make street driving miserable.
Use stock or mild aftermarket cam, Ported GT 40, or 165-185 CC port volume aftermarket aluminum heads. Use a Trick Flow, Edelbrock Performer or equal intake manifold. Take a 73 MM aftermarket MAF calibrated for 24 lb injectors, and 24 lb injectors, 155 LPH fuel pump, Kirban adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Be prepared to shell out some $$$ for a custom burned chip using data gathered from a dyno run. Mass market chips will not get the job done. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, aftermarket 2 1/2” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. Drivetrain: expect the stock T5 to fail, so save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Carry spare tires and wheels for the drag strip: skinnys for the front and drag radials for the rear. No skinnys for street driving! Over 85% of the breaking power is generated by the front tires, so skinnys won’t do the job in a panic stop situation. Disconnect the front anti-roll bar at the strip; reconnect it before you drive home. Leave the emissions equipment intact and working. Removing or disabling it won’t get you any more HP or performance. Do not convert to carb or remove A/C: either one will reduce the resale value. Carb conversions cannot be titled for street use or get tags in some places. They definitely won’t pass smog inspections.

Strip only: High RPM, High flow heads (185-215 CC port volume), wild cam, high flow intake manifold, 70 MM or larger TB, 80 MM or lager MAF, strip everything out of the car that doesn’t make it go faster. Carbs are OK if that’s what you want, but remember that as the temp/humidity/ barometric pressure/altitude changes, you have to re-jet and readjust the carb. EFI eliminates most of that with its built in compensation or you can tune of the fly with a high end Motes or Tweecer system combined with a wide band air/fuel ratio meter. Use custom headers, dumps and minimal mufflers. How fast you can go on 5 liters is a function of the skill level of the driver/mechanic and the size of your wallet.

TRAILER the car to the race track since it won’t be legal to drive it on the street. Drag slicks in the rear, skinnys up front, use 3.73 or bigger gears (4.xx) in the rear axle. Since you won’t be driving on long trips, the big gears with work with the high RPM power curve to get the best results. Drivetrain: TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Remove the front sway bar, put an airbag in the rear spring of the side that spins the tire the most. Plan on a roll cage if you are truly serious about going fast: most strips will require it once you get to a certain ET range.

Autocross is a combination of Hot street engine and street strip chassis prep. The engine must accelerate quickly from low RPM and needs a broad, flat torque curve. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Most of the time you’ll never hit third gear, so some 3.73 or bigger gears (4.xx) may help a lot. You’ll have to spend some more money on brakes since it kills brakes quickly. Rear disks, larger rotors up front, stainless steel brake lines, different brake pads. A 87-88 T Bird Turbo Coupe or SN 95 rear axle will be your best bet. Autocross will severely strain 1st & 2nd gears, so your T5 may take a premature dump. Save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices.

All out road race is the most difficult of all: an engine that will run at high rpm hour after hour and never fail, yet pull hard out of the hairpin turns that will require a lot of torque at lower RPMs. In my opinion, guys that can successfully build a winning road race engine are the cream of the crop. Top this off with a chassis built for strip only duty, but with changes to the settings of springs, tires, roll bars brakes and shocks. It’s a whole other world of racing.
You’ll have to spend lots more money on brakes since it kills brakes quickly. Rear disks, larger rotors up front, stainless steel brake lines, different brake pads. Air ducting to cool the brake rotors will be a must. The brake rotors of cars on a high speed road course glow red after several hard laps of racing. Drivetrain: TKO 500 & TKO 600, and T56 close ratio are the best transmission choices.
 
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7upstang91

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Mar 27, 2014
#18
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #18
Coyote swap!
 

Onefine88

Previously 89SSC18
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#19
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #19
Look at my list in my SIG. Its a tried and true, reliable, "cookie cutter" combo used by 1000's of people. Naturally aspirated with catts it made 280rwhp/315rwtq with catts. Once the cats were swapped for an offroad x it made 297rwhp and 330rwtq.

Very blower friendly. I decided to added the Novi 1000 to it and it is an absolute BALL to drive.

I would drive in anywhere.
 
Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
Reactions: tamadrummer88

David Pepiton

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#20
  • Mar 28, 2014
  • #20
280 all the way to 379 with just an exhaust I think your leaving something out.
 
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