Did that make it a Temptrous?
Outnumbered By Idiots
- Thread starter tannerc91gt
- Start date
I won't argue with you that sometimes electronics go crazy, but it's a start when it comes with troubleshooting efi cars.
I've personally never had an issue dumping codes on mine and getting a legit code. I won't argue that some have trouble, but when working right it's a great tool.
Using Forscan and my phone and wifi dongle, I can access pretty much every module on my taurus and see every switch and circuit. Having trouble with my door switch? Well I can pull it up and open the door and see on my phone if the BCM is seeing it open and close. It does more than that but just an example.
Getting off topic with the newer cars, but my point was if the system works, and you know how to use it, it can be a powerful tool.
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- Dec 19, 2010
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True.. but even the space shuttle(s) was/were retired due to old age.
EFI is great.. especially the new cars- my coyote amazes me everytime I drive it!.... but to say any and all efi is greater than carb, period.. and doing a carb swap on an efi car (that may not have any salvageable components left) is retarded, is, well, retarded.
Like I said before, the only stock components on my boosted fox are quite literally the wiring harnesses. If everything else is junk, ornot usable for the horsepower you want to make, why not swap?
I don't think my point was ever about efi being superior to carb. I'm actually indifferent to the subject.
I really think i was just trying to make a point about general troubleshooting methodology on an efi car vs randomly tossing parts at it.
The carb vs efi debate is one I try to stay away from. I prefer efi but I don't think it's superior. They each have pros and cons
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I really think i was just trying to make a point about general troubleshooting methodology on an efi car vs randomly tossing parts at it.
The carb vs efi debate is one I try to stay away from. I prefer efi but I don't think it's superior. They each have pros and cons
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Thats earth one and earth two, right? Not Florida.
- Dec 19, 2010
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I'll agree with troubleshooting with modern cars.. I think 50% of the codes I've gotten with obdI and early obdII have been bogus. I can't tell you how many o2 sensors I've replaced only to find out they weren't bad, only not working right because component X wasn't working right, and if component X doesn't work, o2's can't work... or at least you get a code for them. It got so bad for a while the cars i worked on cryed wolf so much, I didn't believe it when the damned O2 sensor actually DID go out..
It's like, ok.. lets look at all of these codes, and surmise which one is actually the root of the problem.
At least with cars like your Taurus and my S550, you plug into it and find out what really is happening.
Maybe it's just because of the great resources here, but code tracing hasn't really been a problem for me. Yeah, it may just be a simple "Right bank lean" or "ECT out of range" or something like that and not tell you WHY it's reading that way and actually makes you troubleshoot a bit, but 9x out of 10 for me it's been a mechanical issue (usually something not hooked up right after fiddling with something else nearby) rather than a just bad sensor. Maybe that only gives it the slightest edge of finding where a problem is over a carb, but it's still an edge.
To me, the biggest problem with the factory 80's/90's efi is a new(er) problem: the lackluster quality of modern aftermarket parts (tfi and other distributor parts especially) and the unavailbility of OE parts. Again, another industry wide problem that affects anything old enough to not have OE support regardless of what type of fueling it uses, and regardless of if said part is electrical or mechanical in nature.
And I've seen a few guys in here with aftermarket efi that praise the carb glory days, and most seem to be running megasquirt and it makes me want to ask "Why?" Sure it's cheap, you can build it 100% on your own, or just buy a plug-n-play (which, other than the datalogging capability and laptop tuning is actually a bit of step backwards since anything before ms3 can't do sequential fueling), but from what I've seen, by it's nearly open-source nature, the support and feature implementation is just not there like it is for systems like Holley, BS3, Fast and even the basic TBI systems like Fitech (whole 'nother can-o-worms there). And I know the MS stuff is probably more popular for the kind of crowd we have here than any of those, but I also see way more unfinished MS systems that end up going to a back to a carb or a modded factory efi (or just plain giving up and selling the whole project) than I see of if happening with the "big names"
To me, the biggest problem with the factory 80's/90's efi is a new(er) problem: the lackluster quality of modern aftermarket parts (tfi and other distributor parts especially) and the unavailbility of OE parts. Again, another industry wide problem that affects anything old enough to not have OE support regardless of what type of fueling it uses, and regardless of if said part is electrical or mechanical in nature.
And I've seen a few guys in here with aftermarket efi that praise the carb glory days, and most seem to be running megasquirt and it makes me want to ask "Why?" Sure it's cheap, you can build it 100% on your own, or just buy a plug-n-play (which, other than the datalogging capability and laptop tuning is actually a bit of step backwards since anything before ms3 can't do sequential fueling), but from what I've seen, by it's nearly open-source nature, the support and feature implementation is just not there like it is for systems like Holley, BS3, Fast and even the basic TBI systems like Fitech (whole 'nother can-o-worms there). And I know the MS stuff is probably more popular for the kind of crowd we have here than any of those, but I also see way more unfinished MS systems that end up going to a back to a carb or a modded factory efi (or just plain giving up and selling the whole project) than I see of if happening with the "big names"
I'm still standing by my original complaint. Whether you have an ecu and have the option to run codes or even a distributor, hell, I'll make it easier than that, a 1 cyl scooter engine. The posts that disgust me want no part in doing proper diagnostics or system of elimination to rule out probable cause. They want an answer regurgitated to them so they can go outside point to part "x" and magically have the problem resolve itself. To truly fix something and keep it fixed without running to the shop you have to learn how the damn thing works and what everything on the engine does. Asking for help and then balking at the first obvious step because you don't think that's it is never the answer and that is all I see in those fb groups every single day.
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He's one of many that have come in here demanding an answer and refusing to accept it when he got it. My other favorite was the guy that claimed he had been running forever with no O2s but that can't be the reason his car refused to run correctly.
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Aw man. I remember that one. I think we all tried to tell him that was impossible. Major facepalm.
I remember when he posted pics of his set up there was an inch and a half of the American southwest covering every inch of engine. That couldn't have been it either.
- Mar 2, 2015
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Something you have to realize is that a lot of guys ( like me ) bought MS because its the best bang for the buck. Anyone going into Megasquirt has to understand its not simple, but it allows someone to learn how their car runs on a completely different level. A lot of these things pop up for sale, incomplete, because people don't have realistic goals. And others just ran out of funds and time. MS is marketed for the average Joe.....because of that a lot of people take risks and ish happens.... That's not the fault of MS....its the individual that bought it....and his/her circumstance. Its not for everybody just like green chili.
Without understanding wiring schematics and basic vehicle systems these cars can be total nightmares. No matter what runs the engine, if you don't know what can cause a headlight to be dimmer than the other you're in for it.
A breakout box is worth its weight in gold.....along with a good multimeter.
I know a guy that has an electric race truck....simpler than anything I've seen. Big electric motor, clutch, trans, throttle pedal, a switch, and a bed full of batteries. To each his own.
EFI is great.. any and all efi is greater than carb, period... and doing a carb swap on an efi car is, well, retarded.
I completely agree!
I also have a better understanding of how the media works now
- Dec 19, 2010
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I completely agree!
I also have a better understanding of how the media works now
Retard.
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