Overheating to 230*!!!

NotoriousGT350 · Jun 18, 2004

Ok, it has never done this before. I use to cruise with the AC on and it would only get to 212*. Without AC, 210*. Well, about a month til now it gets up to 230 if I leave the AC on. Last Friday I just had new plugs, wires, dist. cap, rotor, tuning on the stang b/c it was missing bad. Mechanic said #4 plug was drowned in oil. Car has been using 1qt/full tank of gas since I bought it last Aug.

It had SC, but I bought it w/o the SC.

2 MAIN things I'm concern with.
1) Overheating with the AC on.
2) Burning a lot of oil, smoking at idle, and taking off in 1st, 2nd.

Suggestions and opinions are very welcome. Personally, some guesses I could think of are worn piston rings, valve seats, plugged PCV, blown headgasket, T-stat malfunction, radiator cap not holding pressure. Hopefully I'll have this sorted out by end of summer.

J.R.

NotoriousGT350 · Jun 18, 2004

I'll check back later. I'm at work. If not, will use the internet this weekend, so let's get some replies. Thanks. Nothing like having Stangnet around when you need them.

J.R.

ECU5.0 · Jun 18, 2004

well youre right about burning oil...its probably bad rings or valve seals. umm what kind of tstat are you running?

HISSIN50 · Jun 18, 2004

what are the conditions when you are running hot?
the car should have run hotter than 2* difference with a/c vs no a/c.
stat temp (as ECU asked), brand and age of radiator, fan set up, etc would all be good.
more info would really help out.
good luck.

NotoriousGT350 · Jun 18, 2004

Factory T-stat is on now. I already have a 180*, just waiting for a good weekend to flush the cooling system and put on the new T-stat. Factory everything, nothing has been done to the motor, but a rebuilt some 50K+mile ago.

Cruising in city now w/o AC is 210-212*, with AC, climbs slowly to 230*. I know there shouldn't be that much of a difference, but there is, that's what puzzles me and it only happens with the AC on that the temp dramatically rises.

J.R.

ECU5.0 · Jun 18, 2004

well turning the a/c on puts a strain on the motor especially when drivin around in stop and go traffic. sounds like you need to change that tstat pronto. how is the fan clutch...that could also be a very good culprit

NotoriousGT350 · Jun 18, 2004

I haven't thought about the fan clutch, but I will look into it this weekend. I also would like to put in a electric fan and maybe even a new radiator sometime.

J.R.

HISSIN50 · Jun 18, 2004

J.R. im gonna go out on a limb and guess that Lubbock's climate is kinda like mine (tucson). we've been 100*+ lately. if so:
without a/c and the factory stat, your temps of 210-ish dont sound out of reason. imagine that you have a 180, and theoretically lower the operating temp 15 degrees (via stat of 195* down to 180). you would be 195-200 which is very nice.

with the a/c on, all bets are off for many of us. in traffic, i would expect it to temps to climb with a/c on, as your does.

ECU brings up a very good point about the state of the fan clutch. if you have doubts, swap in a new HD unit.

as a rule of thumb: if overheating on the highway, the rad is at fault.
if overheating in town, but not on the highway, the ancillary cooling stuff is at fault (fan clutch, fan blade, etc).

remember, if it is really hot out (like here), the delta across the coil is not much (ambient air temp of 100* goin across the rad is not gonna cool like 70* ambient air goin across the radiator). less range of difference, thus less ability to cool.

ive noticed that there is a huge jump in the inefficiency of the cooling system at temps over 95*. car runs about 10* warmer in a given situation than when below 95*.
just some of my ramblings. good luck.

NotoriousGT350 · Jun 18, 2004

I am going out of town Sat. morning for Father's Day and coming back Sunday afternoon, so I'll check out the temp with the AC on once I'm on the road, and yes it's been pretty hot. Around 95-105 lately. We'll have to see how it goes this weekend.

HISSIN50 · Jun 18, 2004

good luck, bud. let us know how it goes....

Michael Yount · Jun 18, 2004

Putting a lower temp t'stat in will not solve an overheating problem - it will only delay the time it takes to get to the higher temp. If he's running at 212-230 with a 195 t'stat - the t'stat's all the way open, and it still won't cool. Putting the 180 in will just open the t'stat earlier - it's still gonna climb up, just might take a bit longer.

You've got real fundamental problems here - a qt. of oil every 200 miles means you have serious issues with that engine. Unless you have a huge leak, you're burning it. And if you're burning that much - well, I wouldn't bother chasing the overheating problem - the engine's gonna need an overhaul. If you do that - you probably should renew all the cooling system components - radiator included. You don't want to toast a brand new engine by putting it in with the old cooling system - that wasn't working.

When you turn the A/C on, you do put a bit of a bigger load on the engine because of the compressor. But the bigger issue is that the a/c condenser coil, which sits in front of the radiator, has to reject the heat of compression out of the freon. That means the air leaving the back the a/c coil (then passing over the radiator) is MUCH warmer than the ambient air temperature. So with even hotter air passing through your radiator, it has to work that much harder to keep things cool.

In any event - with a 195 t'stat, there's no reason the car shouldn't run right at 195F - so you've got problems with your cooling system even running at 210F. And with that oil burning/oil on the plugs - sounds to me like the person who had it before with the supercharger on it really worked the car over.

Tough love - to make that one right, you've got a big repair bill ahead of you I suspect.

HISSIN50 · Jun 18, 2004

Michael, nice info. to clarify on my post (in case any of your comments were directed at the stuff i posted):
i did not touch the oil consumption part - not enough info.

treating the cooling system independantly, i did not think that 210 was out reason. however, once the magic 100* ambient temps hit, running the a/c on a mostly stock stang (with stock cooling system), all bets tend to be off (for me and other guys i have talked to locally).
if in traffic, many folks can sit and watch the gauge climb gradually (indefinately, i would imagine, till the puter takes corrective actions). if he only heats up with a/c on, then i might renew some components in the cooling system if required, and watch the gauge while idling with a/c. but with heat like this, i dont think the car can 'hold' the temp of the stat. not without cooling upgrades.

as you know i tend to really be finicky about this stuff down here. a lot of what i know is thanks to the education you provided to me last year when i was trying to get my cooling system up to par. BTW, though my fan clutch "tested" comparably to the new HD unit i renewed it with, i think it made a big difference (too bad there is not a more objective clutch test).

so this is just my two cents, really pertaining more to real world function with wretched ambient temps, in my experience. (i think you are correct about all of this, but many of us dont have cars that run near theoretical perfection). so im not at all in disagreement, just justifying why i said what i did and why, i guess. Michael.

Michael Yount · Jun 18, 2004

Almost all of the manufacturers of vehicles for this country test cooling systems in Death Valley and other southwest desert areas - they have for many years. I expect the Stang's stock system passed tests where it sat idling all day with a/c on in 115F-125F conditions - that with a 195F t'stat. However, that's a far cry from the conditions inside the engine/radiator on most Stangs that are 10-20 years old. If everything is up to par, I believe a stock engined Stang, even with A/C on should manage out there without problems. The problem is stuff gets old, and efficiencies drop - especially radiators; add to that modifications, and with this car burning a qt. every 200 miles, I doubt it's been very well cared for during it's stay on the planet. Put all that together - doesn't surprise me a bit that it's not holding up to high ambients.

I was just trying to point out, if the cooling system won't hold it at 195F, then putting a 180F in isn't going to change much of anything. I still have a feeling this one's gonna need major work to cope with the climate out there - seems like it's been rode hard and put up wet.

HISSIN50 · Jun 19, 2004

Michael Yount said:
Almost all of the manufacturers of vehicles for this country test cooling systems in Death Valley and other southwest desert areas - they have for many years. I expect the Stang's stock system passed tests where it sat idling all day with a/c on in 115F-125F conditions - that with a 195F t'stat. However, that's a far cry from the conditions inside the engine/radiator on most Stangs that are 10-20 years old. If everything is up to par, I believe a stock engined Stang, even with A/C on should manage out there without problems. The problem is stuff gets old, and efficiencies drop - especially radiators; add to that modifications, and with this car burning a qt. every 200 miles, I doubt it's been very well cared for during it's stay on the planet. Put all that together - doesn't surprise me a bit that it's not holding up to high ambients.

I was just trying to point out, if the cooling system won't hold it at 195F, then putting a 180F in isn't going to change much of anything. I still have a feeling this one's gonna need major work to cope with the climate out there - seems like it's been rode hard and put up wet.

you are absolutely right, Michael (cant you mess up every now and again, just for us mortals).

i think you got my point (ive beat this point before), that the cars are old and not as efficient as they once were. many of us do not have the resources to renew components to showroom status, let alone in any given system. that being a fact of life, many of us work around it.

some guys run around with 160* stats and report decent milage and such. i can only assume that their systems are a bit clogged, etc, and they are running hotter (the stat being a band-aid perhaps - better yet, an athletic-tape wrap on an athlete's injured ankle, to help keep previously injured 'part' together). but it works for them until they can rebuild a motor or system, and so on. many are happy to have something function decently, and some (look in the mirror ) are not satisfied until the system functions as well as it was engineered (often by you) to. i dont have the acorns upstairs to be able to begin to design things that you do - your mastery of principles is amazing to me.

now you are incorporating the problems with oil and such, which i was not.

i agree that with problems like that, things need to be addressed. but if he were to need to drive the car as it is on a trip, a 180 stat might help out for now.

NotoriousGT350 · Jun 19, 2004

Well, this early afternoon as I was driving here to my hometown the temp was around 208* w/o the AC. Temp outside was low 80s. I turn on the AC for about 10 minutes before I got into town and it got up to 212* at the most. I already plan on doing something about the motor, I plan on saving up for a DSS Bullet 306 shortblock, H/C/I, clutch, and electric fan. Talk to my ol' man about getting a new shortblock and it was shocking, but he agreed.

The motor supposely has right now about 55-60K miles on a rebuild. I could deal with the oil consumption for awhile since it's been like that since I bought back last August. One more paycheck and I can get the Bullet shortblock. I have patience, so my goal is new motor by the end of the year. Thanks for all your help guys. I really appreciate it. I might have a few more questions, but I'm at my dad's job, so I better go. Thanks again.

J.R.

87'GTstang · Jun 19, 2004

I'de be afraid to even drive such a thing with such a bad oil sucking problem as that. I agree with a lot of things hissin and michael said as well. It is wise to at least fix the setup you have and use your current engine as a "test dummy" to iron out any problems that could still haunt you with the new engine.

Ob a side note though, the oil consumption problem in such a youthful stage of only 60k miles shows perfect signs of too much boost/nitrous. Either that or someone didn't install those piston rings right. I've seen similar problems where people like the "wedge" method and force them on any way possible - too bad the misform or get bent out of shape that way. A lot of people do often overlook age. I like to think that mileage is one key part but I personally think age is a touch worse - it's worse to not drive a car than to do so. Things just wear out, dry-rot, shrink and so on from not using them. Good luck on the cooling gremlin and more luck to that engine problem.

92GreenGT · Jun 19, 2004

My car has been running hot too. I just put on the supercharger, but I aslo put on a new waterpump and Ramchargers dual electric fan and new coolant. Never ran hot before, but now its up there to the point I dont want to drive it until I fix it. But I have the stock gauge and its right on the R in the word NORMAL. I guess a Grifin Radiator and 180 T-Stat is in my future.

Dave

HISSIN50 · Jun 20, 2004

92GreenGT said:
But I have the stock gauge and its right on the R in the word NORMAL. I guess a Grifin Radiator and 180 T-Stat is in my future.

Dave

dont forget to get a real gauge. the stocker is pretty useless, IMHO. i was shocked to see the temps i was running in the heat (105* at the house today. whahoo.), though my stocker was fat and happy at half way or less.

JR, i would not toss in the towel on your current motor w/o some testing. i know Michael makes me look like a caveman when it comes to this stuff (and 87Gt has some good stuff to say as well) so i bet they have better ideas than i do.
that said, i would at a minimum to a dry and wet compression test. a leak down would be even better. this might shed some light into where you are losing oil (rings, etc). you might be able to get away with a hone if your walls are glazed and rings are jacked (maybe, sorta, perhaps. LOL). but then you would know for sure, and feel good about tossing money into whatever else you do w/o wondering if the problem could have been relatively cheaply fixed, (comparably to an all new block, etc).

in the meantime, good luck with your two stroke motor.

HISSIN50 · Jun 20, 2004

oh yeah, like Mr Yount and his DcController, the cooling item i like is a Mr Gasket thermostat. fully balanced, open fully sooner, flow a little better and have a bleed hole (compared to parts store generics).
all for 10 bucks at a local speed shop. i ditched a new parts store 180 for one of these within one week, and was quite happy. nice piece.

87'GTstang · Jun 21, 2004

HISSIN50 said:
oh yeah, like Mr Yount and his DcController, the cooling item i like is a Mr Gasket thermostat. fully balanced, open fully sooner, flow a little better and have a bleed hole (compared to parts store generics).
all for 10 bucks at a local speed shop. i ditched a new parts store 180 for one of these within one week, and was quite happy. nice piece.

I've been looking for one for quite some time but all the shop I work at carries is Stant as well as do most of the auto stores around here............

Overheating to 230*!!!

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