Pain to start/ Runs funny like bad timing/ Dies. Any thoughts?

DissFigured · Oct 26, 2005

65 coupe

My ALTernator light was coming on(flashing), and the car was running really jerky when I accellerated. Then I got a new alternator and put it in.

Now the car barely starts and instantly runs like crap (shaking) and dies. I can't keep it running longer than a few seconds. It feels like the timing is way off and the alternator light is consistantly on.

Any thoughts?
Can the alternator cause any of this shaking?

krash kendall · Oct 26, 2005

That really sounds like the points or condensor, both before and after you changed the ALT. Does your car have the stock ignition system?

DissFigured · Oct 26, 2005

you are going to have to dumb it down a bit?

points?
Condensor?
What are they, Where are they? what should I look for to fix it?

I think it is stock ignition it looks older than dirt.

krash kendall · Oct 26, 2005

Sorry, I've been busy writing programs all morning. The points are the breaker points in your distributor under the cap and rotor. The condensor is a capacitor secured on the points plate. If the gap of the points is too large it will run erratically and jump alot at idle if it even runs at all. You need a feeller gauge to set the gap properly.

DissFigured · Oct 26, 2005

So you are a software guy?

I am a application developer myself. Good to know there are other geeks that are into this non geeky hobby.

krash kendall · Oct 26, 2005

Actually, I run a CNC machine shop and my CAM software was just upgraded to the latest version which uses a completely different interface to the previous several versions. And, although I took a transition course a few weeks ago, I still don't have near enough seat time to be proficient in it. I'm manufacturing a large prototype order so now it is a given that I have to jump right into it.

mustangdave · Oct 26, 2005

I agree with the points being the problem; while your at it, at least replace the rotor button and distributor cap. If the budget allows, new spark plugs and wires too.

DissFigured · Oct 26, 2005

so if I go to autozone.com to buy these points, do I just search for "points" or is that a slang term.

It took me forever to find a "pickle fork" until I searched under ball joint separater

DissFigured · Oct 26, 2005

Also, Do I want single or dual?

mustangdave · Oct 26, 2005

Single; the dual points were only used on some h.p. engines. You can actually ask for points. They may be listed as breaker points. Cars haven't used these for over thirty years but hopefully you won't get a non-car salesperson. Give them the year, engine, etc... As stated you will need afeeler gauge to set the gap. Let me know if you want insructions on how to do it. It is easy.

krash kendall · Oct 26, 2005

You may want to upgrade from points to a Pertronix Ignitor II. It replaces the points and condensor with a magnet ring and hall effect sensor. No moving parts and comes with its own feeler guage. It also takes less time to install than points. I've been using one for over a year now and the motor doesn't skip a beat. Lots of guys here have done the switch. I paid $100 CAN.

ForceFed70 · Oct 26, 2005

Hmmm... alternator light comming on doesn't sound like a sympton of a points problem. However, bad points will definately cause hard starting and poor running.

Try hooking up a battery charger to make sure low battery voltage isn't causing your problem. Then go buy a set of points or upgrade to a pertronix (love mine).

krash kendall · Oct 26, 2005

In the older cars any sudden surge/draw such as from the gap being way out causing the car to bounce at idle from erratic breaker activity or even turning the headlights on or off will cause the ALT light to flash at that moment of surge/draw.

Platonic Solid · Oct 26, 2005

DissFigured said:
you are going to have to dumb it down a bit?

points?
Condensor?
What are they, Where are they? what should I look for to fix it?

I think it is stock ignition it looks older than dirt.

Geez dude, you really need to spend some quality time with TFM (The "Ford" Manual). Don't buy anything until you know what you've currently got and what condition it's in. Unless you like throwing money away, in which case, I accept handouts.

DissFigured · Oct 26, 2005

I prefer to jump in the fire and learn by doing. I figure I will replace every single piece of this car before I die. I could have bought one of these cars in perfect shape and learned about the car by reading a book. I spent very little on the car so I could fix it over the next 50 years by hand and learn about it by repairing it. I changed my front suspension by hand last week without first reading a manual. When I hit a snag, I came to the forum or looked online and worked until the next road block.

If I had a book, I would have seen what a pain it was going to be and paid someone else to do it.

I prefer to get in over my head and find my way out.

Pakrat · Oct 26, 2005

Since you are in fact learning (and the hard way) do yourself this one favor, verify everything first, do not get in the habit of simply replacing parts until you get the right one, that is a huge waste of time and money especially considering even new parts can often be defective and thus misleading you as to the real problem. Instead, spend a few bucks on a good multitester so you will have no doubts as to where the trouble lies.

Try running a little fine sandpaper or an emery board across the surface of the points first and then since I assume you do not have a proper gauge you can actually use the cover of a matchbook to get you close enough for now to see if there is any difference. Don't assume that you have single points either although it is likely, look. Many previous owners had upgraded to dual points over the years prior to kits like pertronix being available so it's impossible at all. If you do decide to replace them you should always treat the points and condensor as a unit, never replace one without the other. I would also reccomend if this is the problem that you take advantage of it and upgrade to pertronix as well. I have had single and dual setups as well as pertronix it is hand downs the way to go. There are more than enough gremlins that pop up on a driven car to keep you busy that you really do not want to bother tuning up your points all the time.

jerry S · Oct 26, 2005

Pakrat said:
Since you are in fact learning (and the hard way) do yourself this one favor, verify everything first, do not get in the habit of simply replacing parts until you get the right one, that is a huge waste of time and money especially considering even new parts can often be defective and thus misleading you as to the real problem. Instead, spend a few bucks on a good multitester so you will have no doubts as to where the trouble lies.

The white man speaks the truth. I had problems similar to yours. I called back to the shop that built up the engine and the mechanics opined that the problem could be the dizzy. They were having trouble with the points and had to replace the condensor a few times just before shipping to me. They thought that the points might have finally gone out. So I came here, asked some questions and got advice. I replaced the dizzy and the ignition with all new MSD stuff at cost close to $800 at the end of the day but this did not solve the problem. The problem was then diagnosed as a bad fuel pump so I got a new one. That still did not solve the problem. I took it to a new shop and they drained the gas tank. It was FULL of rust. Bits of rust were getting into the needles in the carb and causing them to stick.

At the end of the day, I am better off with the new ignition anyway and I don't mind the outlay. What bums me is the months of driving I lost.

DissFigured · Oct 26, 2005

Well, this is my plan of attack then:
I will pick up the pertronix as it sounds like the better solution.
I am also going to pick up a new wiring harness for the new alternator as the old one is nasty anyway
I suspect I will need a timing light to adjust the timing since I am jacking w/ the distributor.

All my plugs are brand new as are my wires and battery. so I suspect I can eliminate those.
I will go do this and see what happens.

Here's a dummy question: Can the car start if the alternator is not hooked up. I suspect I might have two separate issues. the alternator causing the light to come on, and the points/condensor causing the motor running funny.

ForceFed70 · Oct 26, 2005

DissFigured said:
Here's a dummy question: Can the car start if the alternator is not hooked up. I suspect I might have two separate issues. the alternator causing the light to come on, and the points/condensor causing the motor running funny.

The alternator is only needed for charging the battery. The car can run fine with no alternator(at least until the battery runs out of juice). Lots of people do this on their drag-only cars.

At least double check the battery voltage(with car running). I'd hate to see you spend all this time and money just to find out that the battery needed a charge. Low battery voltage will result in low spark energy which could easily result in the symptoms you are explaining.

krash kendall · Oct 26, 2005

70_Nitrous_Eater said:
Low battery voltage will result in low spark energy which could easily result in the symptoms you are explaining.

If it was that low he would never get the car started in the first place.

Pain to start/ Runs funny like bad timing/ Dies. Any thoughts?

DissFigured

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krash kendall

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DissFigured

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krash kendall

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DissFigured

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krash kendall

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mustangdave

My rearend needs a stud and two nuts.

DissFigured

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DissFigured

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mustangdave

My rearend needs a stud and two nuts.

krash kendall

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ForceFed70

That's why they call it "dope"

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Platonic Solid

DissFigured

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Pakrat

jerry S

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ForceFed70

That's why they call it "dope"

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