Pats, Hec Cluster, Pcm, Ccrm

[kneedeep00]

Been a long time reader, found so many useful things here, but now I'm stumped. Before I drag it to the dealer and turn in my wrenches and multimeter, I would appreciate some opinions.

2000 Mustang GT, manual. Kenne Bell boosted, chipped, and a 100 shot. Car has worked fine in current configuration for almost 7 years, a couple days ago, this occurs-

Cranks, no start:

PATS system C. 3 programmed keys and 2 fobs. Anti theft light goes solid, then blinks rapidly, and ultimately flashes code 1:6 indicating no communication with pcm. Cluster diagnostic shows code d262 indicating missing scp message. Odometer reads all dashes. Fuel Level, engine temp, battery, and oil pressure all work and display appropriate readings.

OBDii scanner communicates with PCM. to test function, I unplugged random sensors(i.e. evap, egr) and it produced and sent appropriate MIL's and codes to scanner. Checked, double checked, rechecked all VPWR, grounds, and switched grounds in pcm, all check good with almost no resistance to negative post of battery, .006 ohms or less.

FPDM, BAP, and IFS all have 12+ and ground. Fuel pump does not prime at key on, so no fuel pressure, however if hotwired it sings 70psi as it should(Mechanical guage under hood, Digital in dash). No node activity at injectors. COP's have power and there is spark, as I crank, it will run on starting fluid only, will not run on it's own. TPS has 5.1-5.4 volts. IAC has power, MAF has power and ground.

I've pinned out the pcm, ccrm, and fpdm and found no faults, shorts, or open circuits. All grounds and switched grounds in Engine and body harness have been checked.

I'm totally at a loss. I wouldn't be surprised if it's staring me in the face, but that's how it goes sometimes. I lack a ford shop manual, so I go by what I know and what I can search for. I do all my own wrenching and this car has not once seen the dealer or a shop. I take pride in that, but here I am. Any help would be phenomenal.

If I left anything out I can't think of it, so please ask questions if you have any!

Mods, feel free to move my thread to the appropriate section, welcome wagon comes first. Thanks!

 

[madspeed]

I'll move this over to the appropriate forum where you'll see more traffic and get some response

 

[wmburns]

Ok, this could be an ignition switch problem.

This could also be a bad ground behind the center console.

This could also be a broken printed circuit foil trace in the cluster.

/forums/v6-tech/304608-my-odometer-goes-off.html#post2657361 <-- add allfordmustangs.com to the URL. Don't just "click it".

This could also be a cluster power issue. CONFIRM power in/out of fuses F2.21.

Confirm key on power in/out of fuse F2.5, F2.34,

Confirm power in/out of fuse F2.34 with the key in the start position.

If interested in getting a copy of the Ford service manual and wiring diagrams, I maybe able to help. PM if interested.

 

[kneedeep00]

Thank you for the reply!
Results:

Ok, this could be an ignition switch problem.

This could also be a bad ground behind the center console.
Just checked it again, 0 ohms.

This could also be a broken printed circuit foil trace in the cluster.
The odo circuits are good, went over both cards, front and back with a magnifying glass, couldn't find anything.

/forums/v6-tech/304608-my-odometer-goes-off.html#post2657361 <-- add allfordmustangs.com to the URL. Don't just "click it".

This could also be a cluster power issue. CONFIRM power in/out of fuses F2.21.
CONFIRMED.

Confirm key on power in/out of fuse F2.5, F2.34,
CONFIRMED.

Confirm power in/out of fuse F2.34 with the key in the start position.
CONFIRMED.

 

[kneedeep00]

While I had the HEC out, for giggles, I checked the bus +/- and the PCM is in fact chattering. Suppose one of the processors in the cluster took a dump?

 

[wmburns]

OK....IMO you have ruled out most/all of the easy things.

I have attempted to look through the symptom charts to see if this could be something as simple as the programming lost between the cluster and PCM. The thought is that a re-program might fix. However the symptom charts lead me to believe that a different SCP error code would be set if true.

This leads to the conclusion that it's either a wiring fault, cluster fault, or PCM fault.

From here on out, things are likely to get VERY ugly. The good news is if anybody has the "skills" to perform the tests, it's you.

The next suggestion is to perform the pinpoint tests in the Ford manual. However the tests that you will be able to perform are limited to the wiring "ring out" tests. Likely you will have to skip the tests that need the specialized electronic scanning tools.

The Pinpoint tests in the Ford manual are much too long/detailed/diagramed to post.

While I don't normally play this card, it might be time to consider the Ford dealer. The dealer has the advanced diagnostic scanners that are able to talk to the cluster/PCM at a low level. Tools that the average DIY'er just can't afford.

Good luck.

 

[kneedeep00]

I called the dealer today, they'll diagnose for $25 but I'll have to wait until Tuesday. Not thrilled about it at all though. Looked all over for the private message link... what's it take to get a shop manual? We're not talking about that haynes or chilton crap, the real deal ford manual, right?

 

[wmburns]

Started a conversation via PM. Please respond via PM. Good luck.

 

[kneedeep00]

Took it to the dealer this morning, 3 different techs and they're stumped too. According to their diagnostic computers, everything is fine and should be working. All components pass every test except actually running the motor with a turn of the key. They gave up. Now what? I'm half tempted to just get a new PCM and HEC to see what happens.

 

[wmburns]

2000 Mustang GT, manual. Kenne Bell boosted, chipped, and a 100 shot. Car has worked fine in current configuration for almost 7 years, a couple days ago, this occurs-!

^^^chipped^^^

It occurred to me that I have helped people in the past with "strange" PCM issues. The problem turned out to be chip related. The theory being that the contacts on the chip aren't making good connection. This causes the PCM to "loose it's mind".

I recall one case where the owner simply removed the chip and the problem went away. Another reported the problem resolved itself by "re-seating" the chip.

Suggest removing the chip and clean the electrical contacts with electrical contact cleaner. Lightly re-grease the contacts with di-electric silicone grease.

Be sure to disconnect the battery before doing this work.

 

[kneedeep00]

I thought about the same thing, already performed what you suggested last week. I rechecked everything with the chip removed and reinstalled. No change. I've got a new PCM and reman HEC on the way. I overnighted the HEC, expecting that to be the fix over the PCM. So I should find out tomorrow sometime after I trailer it back to the dealer. That is of course if the tech can figure out how to program it. I don't have much faith in him, simply because he told me to my face that he doesn't know how... Go figure.

 

[squeak93]

wmburns is a great source here.

One thing to note is that NOT ALL TECHS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Find a ford dealer with a master electrician or equal to chase down this gremlin. (that is if your new parts don't fix). I definitely would not allow any tech to touch my car that openly states they have no clue how to do said task. Go learn on a Fusion, not a dual power adder car.

Good Luck.

 

[kneedeep00]

Up and running again! It was the cluster. PCM didn't like it at first, but it took on the third try after I went out to see what the problem was. The dipstick tech didn't even bother to disconnect the battery before plugging it in, so if course it wouldn't accept it. The service manager was nice enough to let me do the install myself in their shop to save a couple dollars. Still banged me for $240 on top of that for the flash and 3 attempts prior that didn't work.

How is it that it makes sense to charge a full hour for something that takes 15 minutes, and then charge for stuff the tech tried that didn't work? They didn't diagnose anything. Not a single thing. If their computer didn't say it was wrong, they didn't even look. That is why, I don't take my stuff to shops. I'm glad it's sorted, but cripes all mighty if it wasn't like pulling teeth dealing with those fools. The customer shouldn't have to tell the tech how to navigate IDS.

Thanks for all the help though wmburns. An educated guess gets the kill shot.

 

[arctic beast]

Been a long time reader, found so many useful things here, but now I'm stumped. Before I drag it to the dealer and turn in my wrenches and multimeter, I would appreciate some opinions.

2000 Mustang GT, manual. Kenne Bell boosted, chipped, and a 100 shot. Car has worked fine in current configuration for almost 7 years, a couple days ago, this occurs-

Cranks, no start:

PATS system C. 3 programmed keys and 2 fobs. Anti theft light goes solid, then blinks rapidly, and ultimately flashes code 1:6 indicating no communication with pcm. Cluster diagnostic shows code d262 indicating missing scp message. Odometer reads all dashes. Fuel Level, engine temp, battery, and oil pressure all work and display appropriate readings.

OBDii scanner communicates with PCM. to test function, I unplugged random sensors(i.e. evap, egr) and it produced and sent appropriate MIL's and codes to scanner. Checked, double checked, rechecked all VPWR, grounds, and switched grounds in pcm, all check good with almost no resistance to negative post of battery, .006 ohms or less.

FPDM, BAP, and IFS all have 12+ and ground. Fuel pump does not prime at key on, so no fuel pressure, however if hotwired it sings 70psi as it should(Mechanical guage under hood, Digital in dash). No node activity at injectors. COP's have power and there is spark, as I crank, it will run on starting fluid only, will not run on it's own. TPS has 5.1-5.4 volts. IAC has power, MAF has power and ground.

I've pinned out the pcm, ccrm, and fpdm and found no faults, shorts, or open circuits. All grounds and switched grounds in Engine and body harness have been checked.

I'm totally at a loss. I wouldn't be surprised if it's staring me in the face, but that's how it goes sometimes. I lack a ford shop manual, so I go by what I know and what I can search for. I do all my own wrenching and this car has not once seen the dealer or a shop. I take pride in that, but here I am. Any help would be phenomenal.

If I left anything out I can't think of it, so please ask questions if you have any!

Mods, feel free to move my thread to the appropriate section, welcome wagon comes first. Thanks!

If it is NOT?? CCRM, usual problem, then it is crank sensor, replace that. I went to junk yard for my CCRM, opened it and replaced, soldered new fuelpump relay, cost $5..., works perfect!