Pertronix not coming to the rescue, need Advice please!!!!!

OK guys, sorry if this gets a little lengthy but to get the best advice I figure it’s best to go through all the steps and give as much info up front as possible rather than answer a million questions. I am hoping someone has been in my shoes before. First, here is the link that led to the Pertronix installation for anyone joining the party late: http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=473858

The first 3 steps are just disconnecting power and inspection, blah blah, so we’ll go right to step 4. It says remove wire from negative coil, remove screws holding breaker plate and remove entire plate with points. (This was the first problem, there was no separate plate, the bottom of the distributor is seamless and fused as one piece so I had to just undo all 4 screws and remove the dual points separately.)

Step 5: Install the ignitor adapter plate using the original breaker plate screws. (Problem #2, there was no previous one to replace and the adapter plate is approximately 2mm in diameter larger than the area inside the distributor so there is no way it will ever fit inside even if there was a removable plate to begin with.) BTW, my distributor model is an Accel 34201S if that is any help whatsoever.

Step 6: Pull wires and grommet through hole in housing. (Had to massage the hell out of the eye connectors but accomplished).

Step 7: Place the ignitor on the plate studs. Fasten with nuts but don’t tighten. (Problem #3, the plate didn’t fit in step 5 so there are no studs. I did not have two sets of holes that lined up with the ignitor bracket holes, so I just bolted it down on one side with one of the existing holes from the points for now to move along).

Step 8: Push the magnet sleeve onto point cam. (No problem there.)

Step 9: Adjust the air gap between sleeve and module with supplied feeler gauge then tighten. (Again no problem. Yes it is only held down with one bolt still, but it is very tight and does not move or wiggle, the gap did not change once in all the start attempts.)

Step 10: Replace rotor and cap with all wires secured. Done.

Step 11: Black wire to negative coil, Red to positive unless there is a primary ballast resistor. (As I found later in my troubleshoot attempts, I do not seem have this resistor, but I could be wrong.)

Step 12: Start engine, let run for a few minutes then set timing in normal manor. (The car would not completely start. I could tell the starter motor was stronger than ever and very crisp, it would chug and plug and run a little rough, but it would not stay when you let up on the cranking, it would just die until eventually it would not even catch at all. By the smell, it is getting plenty of gas.)

OK, so onto the troubleshooting section.

First check all connections if not starting. (Done, no visible issues.)

If still no start or runs rough remove red wire from coil and connect directly to positive battery side, if you get a start it is a common low voltage problem. (Ooookay, well I did that with no change or progress and they do not say what to do next if still no start!!)

Next was how to fix the low voltage problem by either connecting before the ballast resistor or to a 12 volt ignition source instead of the coil. (I would guess the solenoid, but this does not seem to be my problem so we’ll move on.)

Type of coil needed 1.5 ohms of resistance. (Not a problem either as I installed the Pertronix Flamethrower coil also)

I also connected a jumper wire from negative coil terminal to an engine ground as well as negative lead from my voltmeter and the positive lead to positive coil terminal. With the ignition on I read a full 12 volts, thus my assumption that I have no ballast resistor causing my problem.

Possible solutions running thru my head last night.
Maybe I need a new rotor even though mine appears fine? Cheap enough and I will get one today.
Maybe that plate is extremely crucial to the module location being exact? As long as my gap between the module and the sleeve is accurate, I fail to see what negative affect that could have, especially since the sleeve does not have any directional importance pointed out I have to believe that location is irrelevant.

Maybe the timing is way off for this application? It would be a lot easier to check if it started at least. I figured I’d just try and adjust it a little counter clockwise or clockwise and restart until I made some progress, but after loosening the hold down bolt I find my distributor is frozen in place and won’t budge. I have hit it up all day and night with WD40 and hope to have better luck with that tonight, but after this I am fresh out of ideas and could really use some bright ideas. Hoping you guys can help. If not, I’ll try emailing this novel to Pertronix directly and see what they have to say.

I have the unit for the dual point without vaccum advance BTW as that is what my distributor is. The lack of vaccum is obvious, but is it possible that my distributor was originally single point or something and the PO just upgraded it so I have the wrong unit? I know I am grasping at straws, but I remember having issues with parts when I first got the car years ago because I would be asking for things on a 69’ 302 4V and they would come up N/A because the car was originally a 2V and they didn’t make 4V.
 
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:( You seem to have a multitude of things going not in your favor.


The problem could be in the location of the pickup,
will it rotate over to the other side?
and does the locator pins for the org points hold it up off the breaker plate?

That is all that pops into my head at the moment. :D
When I installed mine in the Cougar it had the stock dist and went in and worked first time.
With the Accel it is a much smaller base and may need differant set up type,
:shrug: But they should have sent the correct one.
A guess is that they sent one for the stock duel point dist.

PB
 
Did it run OK before your install?

If it did, then it is more than likely the timing is off because the pickup is not located where they wanted it. If this is the case, your gonna have to get that distributor freed up. Which your gonna have to do anyway or you wont be able to fine tune the advance.

You better start there.
 
I did not know Petronix made an ignitor for aftermarket distributors but I know nothing about this issue but that sounds like the root of the problem....you ignitor was not designed to be in your distributor.

I did a unilte conversion on the distributor in my 57 T-Bird. The only conversion kit available was for the later mid 60's and up single point Ford distributor. I had to completely modify the kit and reclock the rotor to get it to work....it was no simple bolt in. I think you might be in the same situation here.
 
One other thing about the pertronix is you need a GOOD ground for it to work. I don't think this is your problem, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. I ran into this when I first put mine in. My car is a rust bucket, though. :nonono:
 
Ronstang said:
I did not know Petronix made an ignitor for aftermarket distributors but I know nothing about this issue but that sounds like the root of the problem....you ignitor was not designed to be in your distributor.
This was my first thought also. Have you contacted Pertronix to make sure their kit will work on an Accel distributor? That is where I would start. :shrug:
 
Thanks for the replies so far guys, I'll answer them one by one.

Pabear, when you say pickup, do you mean the module itself? If so, becasue it is only screwed down on one side in an exisiting hole, I can pretty much attach it to any of the four exisiting threaded holes that that the points were secured to. Right of the point cam seemed the most logical spot. I had no previous locator pins for the points, they each attached with two bolts, one fixed and the other adjustable. The Pertronix sits atop of the exisiting plate in direct surface contact. When I ordered the unit I did not think to specify that my distributor was not stock. The options for V8 were simple enough, either single point, dual w/o vac adv or dual w/ vac adv. I do see now where in the VA catalog it does say fits any stock ford distributor, but on the box and in other copy I have read it converts any point system so I did not think twice about it. If this is the case am I now going to have to buy a new stock dual point w/o vac adv dist just to use this frickin kit?

Worth, well, yes and no. A set of points got fried (at least that was the assumption I was working off of) and I limped it home which finally lead to this conversion. It ran but very rough and coughed and weased alot. All that info is in the link above to the other thread. So your saying that it could be a timing issue as I suspected then? Would it be beneficial to me to try and relocate the module to another side or front or back as well? I tried to locate it pretty much where the pins on the included plate would have had it positioned. Or perhaps I should try to rotate the magnetic sleeve? Because you just push that on, I assumed it was equal all the way around. As you say, I pretty much do have to free up the ditributor first regardless of what the problem really is anyway, so I guess I'll focus on that for now. It's been saoking in WD40, so i guess I'll put the vise grips to it tonite and see if I can budge it.

Ronstang, I am starting to agree. I guess I just dont understand though how if my distributor is designed to replace the stock unit than you would think that an item designed to work with stock would work here as well. :shrug: I think about how any people who would not even know the difference and order as I did yet I have not heard a story like this yet. Mine is also no simple bolt in as you say, and I thought for sure that the mods I made to it would have i working in the same fashion. Apparantly not though.

Hack, actually before the install I put on one of those green knobs to my ground because I am tired of disconnecting every time I work. and while I was at it I finally brushed and cleaned the ground to my block, so I think I am safe there now.

Maybe at this stage I'll just go to the pertronix website and see what they have to say. If it is the distributor then there is little point in continuing to analyze it unless someone has been down this road and can tell me how exactly to modify it. :(
 
This :bs: is starting to anger me. :mad:

I just went to their website, and under contact info they only list phone fax and mail, and under support it says coming soon. Um hello, they have been in business how long now? And sold 2 million units but no customer service email? WTF? I guess I can try to print out and fax my novel since reading all over the phone will take way too long.

Ugh! I am half thinking of yanking it out and just buying a new set of points and condensor and say screw it!
 
A set of points got fried (at least that was the assumption I was working off of) and I limped it home which finally lead to this conversion.

You may have a totally different issue then, if it wasn't running before the swap. Are you sure you have compression and that your t-chain hasn't jumped?

How did it die originally? Any symptoms?

OOPS, I just went back and read your other thread, I wish you young guys would stick to one thread, us old guys can't remember yesturday :D

That still sounds like a fuel problem to me . are you sure the carb has fuel in it? does it give a good squirt when you look down the carb and pump it?
 
I have a dual point Mallory and it required a special kit from Pertronix.Had a Mustang parts dealer order it directly from Pertronix. Put it on and the car barely started and ran even worse until I set the timing. I would make sure that I had the right kit before doing anything else.
 
Sorry Worth, since my problem was slightly different I thought if I used the same thread I might not get any "I had the same pertronix problem" replies so I thought it best to seperate and link them.

Compression and chain seem fine, can't say I am sure though and I do not have the proper tools to test compression. I have yet to verify a good squirt, but i'll do that tonite. It sure smells like it's getting gas though. I'll just pick up a new fuel filter tonite and swap it. Maybe I'll puul out that little bronze one too in the carb as suggested. It was running before the swap, just not well, now not at all.

Tomcat, thanks. I have revised and edited my initial post and faxed it to Pertronix Headquarters. Hopefully they will reply with a simillar comment and solution and not just ignore me.
 
Max Power said:
I really believe the Pertronix you have is for the stock distributor and that is your problem. There just aren't many aftermarket distributors around any more that use points.
Yep, that is pretty much where I am sitting on this issue and just because the Accel dirsributor is an OEM replacement doesn't mean it is the same as the Ford unit...only that it performs at or above the stock unit's level. The design is totally different and not one dimension (except the critical ones) are the same and Accel uses a totally different advance mechanism.
 
Hmmm, well looks like I have little choice then. Aero is stopping by tonite to take a look and I am changing out the fuel filter this afternoon just to see if it makes a difference (or at the least finally be the person who gets to prove guru worth wrong, heh heh ;) j/k). Boy if it works now will I be eating crow.

I hope if I have to get it from Pertronix directly that VA Mustang will take it back. I had to bend the crap out of the eye terminals to get them thru the hole. If not I'll have to start searching for a buyer or eat the $60. I wonder how much a stock dual point vaccum less distributor sells for anyway? Maybe I should swap dizzy's instead of peretronix? Who knows, that might be my only option anyway?
 
Ronstang said:
Yep, that is pretty much where I am sitting on this issue and just because the Accel dirsributor is an OEM replacement doesn't mean it is the same as the Ford unit...only that it performs at or above the stock unit's level. The design is totally different and not one dimension (except the critical ones) are the same and Accel uses a totally different advance mechanism.

But you also siad that you did succesfully modify for your unilite too, right? So there is a chance it could work still right? If the fuel filter ends up the culprit, should I not use it rigged up even if it works?
 
Pakrat said:
But you also siad that you did succesfully modify for your unilite too, right? So there is a chance it could work still right? If the fuel filter ends up the culprit, should I not use it rigged up even if it works?

UH OH, Pakrat and Aero under the same hood.............N.H. will never be the same again :lol: , I better stock up on Morgan and sit by the phone :D

PS, you better hope you don't have a FUEL problem, cause I'll never let you live it down :rlaugh: